Fresh off a new set of Swans, I'm ready to get going on a set of speakers for a friend who has some very serious space limitations.
Previously, I addressed this issue in this post, but now things have become even more restrictive, if you can believe it.
The only way for this poor schmuck to have any semblance of a decent audio experience is for him to place speakers on the very top of his entertainment center, which would be about 7' in the air!!!
Yeah. That sucks.
So, the requirements remain that he wants a full-ranger, probably a BLH or an ML-TL. He can handle lower efficiency since he's pushing them with a sand amp, but I think we'll probably go Fostex anyway since we both agree that they sound nice. Either the FE103s or the 108EZs would suffice.
So... back to the elevation issue.
The space is about 83.5" in the air and around 11" tall by 8' long. Not optimal for listening purposes, but here's my proposed solution:
I could use an existing horn design, preferably something with a bass port out of the front of the horn (not the back, since it would be smack up against the wall) and a width < 11" since they'll be lying on their sides (which shouldn't be a problem, given the selection of 4" drivers).
Now the trick-- I think I could modify the baffle to angle down toward the listener instead of pointing straight ahead 7' up which, as I mentioned earlier, would suck.
I am waiting on some photos of said space so all you geniuses can visualize what design would be best suited, but any ideas would be incredibly welcome. I really think this could work, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be up against design-wise and how lousy or not-so-lousy this may sound.
Yours in inane, mindless questions,
Kofi
Previously, I addressed this issue in this post, but now things have become even more restrictive, if you can believe it.
The only way for this poor schmuck to have any semblance of a decent audio experience is for him to place speakers on the very top of his entertainment center, which would be about 7' in the air!!!
Yeah. That sucks.
So, the requirements remain that he wants a full-ranger, probably a BLH or an ML-TL. He can handle lower efficiency since he's pushing them with a sand amp, but I think we'll probably go Fostex anyway since we both agree that they sound nice. Either the FE103s or the 108EZs would suffice.
So... back to the elevation issue.
The space is about 83.5" in the air and around 11" tall by 8' long. Not optimal for listening purposes, but here's my proposed solution:
I could use an existing horn design, preferably something with a bass port out of the front of the horn (not the back, since it would be smack up against the wall) and a width < 11" since they'll be lying on their sides (which shouldn't be a problem, given the selection of 4" drivers).
Now the trick-- I think I could modify the baffle to angle down toward the listener instead of pointing straight ahead 7' up which, as I mentioned earlier, would suck.
I am waiting on some photos of said space so all you geniuses can visualize what design would be best suited, but any ideas would be incredibly welcome. I really think this could work, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be up against design-wise and how lousy or not-so-lousy this may sound.
Yours in inane, mindless questions,
Kofi
Greets!
Hmm, assuming these are the folded 'Voigt' ML-TQWTs, then an angled baffle can be added to them since a worst case scenario is a bit of peaking at Fb, which can be cured via either more series R and/or some vent damping.
Anyway, the biggest downside to this layout are the various cavity effects and the corner on the R.H. side, so ideally each speaker would be tuned differently, with the corner one being tuned much lower, and either damp the top of the EC or sides of the speakers as best he can. Decorative pillows can be used behind speakers to deal with the big one, and lobby for moving the dust collectors over the TV to the lower R.H. side shelf and vice-versa.
GM
Hmm, assuming these are the folded 'Voigt' ML-TQWTs, then an angled baffle can be added to them since a worst case scenario is a bit of peaking at Fb, which can be cured via either more series R and/or some vent damping.
Anyway, the biggest downside to this layout are the various cavity effects and the corner on the R.H. side, so ideally each speaker would be tuned differently, with the corner one being tuned much lower, and either damp the top of the EC or sides of the speakers as best he can. Decorative pillows can be used behind speakers to deal with the big one, and lobby for moving the dust collectors over the TV to the lower R.H. side shelf and vice-versa.
GM
OK-- reviving this one.
Great! But I'm really looking to use, say, the 108EZ in a small horn or a nice BR.
Can anyone suggest a small horn, perhaps with the 108EZ, that I could put in the above referenced space with an angled baffle that would make nice music and perhaps a decent cup of coffee for a change, jeez wouldya! Criminy! I just worked a double shift! I can't get some coffee?!?
Kofi
Great! But I'm really looking to use, say, the 108EZ in a small horn or a nice BR.
Can anyone suggest a small horn, perhaps with the 108EZ, that I could put in the above referenced space with an angled baffle that would make nice music and perhaps a decent cup of coffee for a change, jeez wouldya! Criminy! I just worked a double shift! I can't get some coffee?!?
Kofi
Check out the spiral horn enclosure for FE108Sigma:Kofi Annan said:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/disc_fe_sigma_enc.shtml
Hang 'em sideways, driver side down, angled downwards, I bet they'd sound great. Hang 'em from hooks in the ceiling, then pull them from the bottom side toward the back wall.
That one gets my vote too. I suppose you could use the normal sigma or FE103E designs too, simply angle the baffle the driver is attqached to downward, and add a couple of blanking pieces in the compression chamber to keep the volume the same. On the up side (no pun intended, as these horns usually use the floor for bass-coupling, it can now use the ceiling to equal effect.
What a position to be in though! Any particular reason why he's only allowed to have speakers mounted up there? Or don't I want to know?
Best
Scott
What a position to be in though! Any particular reason why he's only allowed to have speakers mounted up there? Or don't I want to know?
Best
Scott
I've been looking at something to put my FE108e sigmas in as well. After modeling a few popular backhorns in MJK's sheets, I like the buschhorn best so far. Perhaps copy this expansion and refold into a spiral horn? Or even build it as is, but install the driver on the wide side? It's shallow enough you could just tilt it forward with some brackets.
I agree that the righthand speaker in the corner presents some problems.
As an alternative, how about a pair of FE87's in BR right on top of the TV? A small subwoofer could be disguised as an ornate chinese chest (or actually built into one) and placed on top of the shelves. That would have extremely hi WAF and probably sound pretty good, aside from the minimal stereo separation. There's also a fostex factory design for 3 FE107 designed for set top placement.
GB
I agree that the righthand speaker in the corner presents some problems.
As an alternative, how about a pair of FE87's in BR right on top of the TV? A small subwoofer could be disguised as an ornate chinese chest (or actually built into one) and placed on top of the shelves. That would have extremely hi WAF and probably sound pretty good, aside from the minimal stereo separation. There's also a fostex factory design for 3 FE107 designed for set top placement.
GB
Terry Cain's wall horn is a cool take:
http://www.cain-cain.com/audio/
Are these the 108s, or the 168s? (Website don't say.)
http://www.cain-cain.com/audio/
Are these the 108s, or the 168s? (Website don't say.)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dumbass said:
That's the 108 I believe, though I could be wrong. Beautiful aren't they. Problem is, I've never seen a design like it, though the old Fostex factory spiral horn is similar I suppose. Oh, and according to elsewhere on Terry's site, that's a bass trap in front, not a woofer!
Cheers
Scott
Wow! Thanks for all the great replies!
Thanks, Dumbass! God. I really enjoyed writing that.
Yeah, the FE103 is a real consideration. In fact, the driver that he has in the ML TL enclosure right now is the old RS 40-1197, which is essentially an FE-103. I like the 108EZs, though, and I'd be willing to bet he'd prefer them to the 103s.
The wife's got issues with the whole thing. Better not to ask.
See my previous response, above.
Anyway, pertaining to the corner issue, if he wnclosed the open corner of the enertainment center, would that even up left and right response?
Keep the ideas comin'!
Kofi
Thanks, Dumbass! God. I really enjoyed writing that.
Yeah, the FE103 is a real consideration. In fact, the driver that he has in the ML TL enclosure right now is the old RS 40-1197, which is essentially an FE-103. I like the 108EZs, though, and I'd be willing to bet he'd prefer them to the 103s.
The wife's got issues with the whole thing. Better not to ask.
See my previous response, above.
Anyway, pertaining to the corner issue, if he wnclosed the open corner of the enertainment center, would that even up left and right response?
Keep the ideas comin'!
Kofi
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