Moondog55 said:
Cheers Ted, thats where my train of thought was going. I'm still renting in a flat at the moment so a sub will be on hold till I'm in a house. I'll order the drivers today and post some pic's when they turn up, I do like a thread with pictures so I should return the favour. I'm pretty low on powertools and while I'm sure you would be very impressed if I built some enclosures using nothing but a drill and a dremel I'll be waiting till my parents return to there place so I can make use of a table saw.
Moondog55 said:
No argument here. I like the tonal quality of bass from the M22WR so it's more about quality than quantity.
Moondog55 said:
Never use the line outs on these or most plate amps as it goes through a horrible cap (220uF IIRC) to form the high pass. They sound terrible and you don't want that signal going into you main power amp. Best to use these from the pre amp's pre out (most have 2 outputs) or speaker level from an integrated without pre outs. Use the other pre out directly to the main power amp.
My dad finally got around to grabbing the wood and I measured it all and he cut it about 30 mins ago.
But I have a chemistry assignment that has my attention this weekend, once I finish it I'll mark out what needs to be routed/sanded/cut further.
Sparehead, good to see yours are coming along.
But I have a chemistry assignment that has my attention this weekend, once I finish it I'll mark out what needs to be routed/sanded/cut further.
Sparehead, good to see yours are coming along.
I got them from WES Components on my trade account but they should be available at Jaycar PT-3012. I get them for about $5 less than the Jaycar price.
Edit
I just had a look. .... make that $9 less than the Jaycar price. They are getting very greedy and milking the lower dollar value for all it's worth, even though it's climbed back up to a sensible value.
Edit
I just had a look.
.... make that $9 less than the Jaycar price. They are getting very greedy and milking the lower dollar value for all it's worth, even though it's climbed back up to a sensible value.Hi Matt and wise elders,
I am somewhat keen to jump onto your band wagon and make myself a pair of these bookshelves.
I have listened to a whole bunch of speakers and really liked the Paradigm Atoms, though I was auditioning a set of Mordaunt short 902is the other day when the salesman pulled out a pair of Dynaudios (not sure which ones, were black and about $1500 a pair). wow, same top end, but the middle and low end were a little more distinct and a little more precise.
Poor form by the salesman as I wasn't going to spend $1500 but now the 902is sounded crap compared, no ways I could settle for them.
So I think I want to build my own speakers and this thread is an absolute mountain of knowledge. Would these speakers be comparable to the Atoms or the Dynaudios.
I think I would really enjoy making a set of speakers and these drivers seem to make you guys quite excited, so they must be decent.
vovo
p.s. Matt, thank you for all your questions and persistence as I, through you, have learnt a heap.
I am somewhat keen to jump onto your band wagon and make myself a pair of these bookshelves.
I have listened to a whole bunch of speakers and really liked the Paradigm Atoms, though I was auditioning a set of Mordaunt short 902is the other day when the salesman pulled out a pair of Dynaudios (not sure which ones, were black and about $1500 a pair). wow, same top end, but the middle and low end were a little more distinct and a little more precise.
Poor form by the salesman as I wasn't going to spend $1500 but now the 902is sounded crap compared, no ways I could settle for them.
So I think I want to build my own speakers and this thread is an absolute mountain of knowledge. Would these speakers be comparable to the Atoms or the Dynaudios.
I think I would really enjoy making a set of speakers and these drivers seem to make you guys quite excited, so they must be decent.
vovo
p.s. Matt, thank you for all your questions and persistence as I, through you, have learnt a heap.
quick update, got my drivers today and took some photo's for you all including some group shots side by side with the madisound RB2 kit.
Ralph Waters included some sketch's on how he would go about doing the floor standing version. They have a down firing port of 75mm tuned to 40-45Hz, a brace behind the woofer and some heavy underfelt hanging from the top. busy night at work tonight, will try get the pic's posted and sketch's scanned and up tomorrow night so this thread can have another design to chew on and some eye candy. I hope the pic's came out OK, they were pretty rushed
I'm a bit lost to say the least, tuning vent tubes and best practice for speaker building etc. someone want to point me at a good book for getting to grips with this stuff?
Anyone have any suggestions for good marine plywood or similar in Sydney?
Ralph Waters included some sketch's on how he would go about doing the floor standing version. They have a down firing port of 75mm tuned to 40-45Hz, a brace behind the woofer and some heavy underfelt hanging from the top. busy night at work tonight, will try get the pic's posted and sketch's scanned and up tomorrow night so this thread can have another design to chew on and some eye candy. I hope the pic's came out OK, they were pretty rushed
I'm a bit lost to say the least, tuning vent tubes and best practice for speaker building etc. someone want to point me at a good book for getting to grips with this stuff?
Anyone have any suggestions for good marine plywood or similar in Sydney?
Hi Vovo, welcome.
I honestly cannot comment on the sound as my recommendation was based on Ralph Waters answer to queries I made on eBay and looking at the graphs and published specs.
If my wife will allow me I will buy a set for myself.
Sparehead
Tough question! as Rabbitz said earlier in making a smallish box the bracing may not be essential but if making a big one I think it is.
You need to tie the sides together, run battens off center along the long dimension, use blocking in all the corners, make sure that the area around the driver cut-out between woofer and tweeter is strengthened, and try and use a non-resonant material for the box.
of all of these the box material seems to provoke the most discussion and contention.
There are numerous threads on best practice.
MDF and ply bonded together is probably as good as any, 12mm + 12mm would be heavy though.
My own experiments lead me think that a composite of Chip-board and MDF with a skin of good ply would be OK for big boxes
I honestly cannot comment on the sound as my recommendation was based on Ralph Waters answer to queries I made on eBay and looking at the graphs and published specs.
If my wife will allow me I will buy a set for myself.
Sparehead
Tough question! as Rabbitz said earlier in making a smallish box the bracing may not be essential but if making a big one I think it is.
You need to tie the sides together, run battens off center along the long dimension, use blocking in all the corners, make sure that the area around the driver cut-out between woofer and tweeter is strengthened, and try and use a non-resonant material for the box.
of all of these the box material seems to provoke the most discussion and contention.
There are numerous threads on best practice.
MDF and ply bonded together is probably as good as any, 12mm + 12mm would be heavy though.
My own experiments lead me think that a composite of Chip-board and MDF with a skin of good ply would be OK for big boxes
re:'good marine plywood or similar in Sydney?'
- try Mr Plywood; last ply I bought was 18mm Hoop pine from the Penrith Mr Plywood, $180 a sheet, but it looks good,
- the boss must've been out, they didn't charge me for cutting it up...
They had formwork 18mm ply for half that price on special (but it was a couple of month ago);
The stuff from Bunnings is cr@p....
- try Mr Plywood; last ply I bought was 18mm Hoop pine from the Penrith Mr Plywood, $180 a sheet, but it looks good,
- the boss must've been out, they didn't charge me for cutting it up...
They had formwork 18mm ply for half that price on special (but it was a couple of month ago);
The stuff from Bunnings is cr@p....
vovo said:
I'll take a punt and say these speakers should be better balanced and have more bass than the Atoms. It's a hard call with the Dynaudio but to give you some indication here's a comment (post #303) on the little Vifa speaker design in the wiki compared to a Dynaudio Contour 1.1 which shows a DIY can hold it's own quite well.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1766678#post1766678
The speaker in this thread should sound a bit fuller than the little Vifa speaker (design is now dead as drivers no longer available) in that example. Please remember that these would not produce much bass under 60Hz due to the small 14 litre box design. To go down to 50Hz would require another 5 litres + which is taking it towards the floorstander size.
I haven't built this speaker but I do know what Ralph's speakers sound like and this would be close to the early Richter Merlin of around 1990.
sparehead1
To help and give you a guide I've added a sketch of a similar floorstander which uses contruction very similar to one of Ralph's designs from 1990 which used similar woofers from Audax (HT170G2). The design is not a drop in but can help with ideas and box proportions and ratios.
Attachments
Would I see much benefit from an increase in volume to about 18L.
I don't have access to windows so it seems I cannot play with those box designer programs.
Does the shape make much of a difference, those speakers you have designed rabbitz looked quite elongated, would it make a sonic difference to make the boxes more of a cube?
How do you guys make your boxes? do you have all the tools available? or do you get them cut professionally? This seems to be the major hurdle, I know that Bunnings does cut but only to a 5mm accuracy and obviously no routing. I don't have a router though I could probably borrow one. Roughly what would you pay someone to cut the MDF and route it?
Regarding the 63mm Dia port, is that the inner diameter (a standard PVC size I assume) if so what size hole would need to be cut into the panel.
Appreciated guys
I don't have access to windows so it seems I cannot play with those box designer programs.
Does the shape make much of a difference, those speakers you have designed rabbitz looked quite elongated, would it make a sonic difference to make the boxes more of a cube?
How do you guys make your boxes? do you have all the tools available? or do you get them cut professionally? This seems to be the major hurdle, I know that Bunnings does cut but only to a 5mm accuracy and obviously no routing. I don't have a router though I could probably borrow one. Roughly what would you pay someone to cut the MDF and route it?
Regarding the 63mm Dia port, is that the inner diameter (a standard PVC size I assume) if so what size hole would need to be cut into the panel.
Appreciated guys
Another quick question.
The Paradigm atom and the Mordaunt Short 902i state they go as low as 50Hz and 55Hz respectively, and they are in smaller boxes than this DIY (e.g. atom 6.26L) yet you state these AUDAX + SEAS combos in a bigger box will only go down to 60Hz.
Can I assume they are talking nonsense, how then am I to know what the true figure is?
I realise these companies stretch the figures a little to make sales, but is there a way to find out the truth?
vovo
The Paradigm atom and the Mordaunt Short 902i state they go as low as 50Hz and 55Hz respectively, and they are in smaller boxes than this DIY (e.g. atom 6.26L) yet you state these AUDAX + SEAS combos in a bigger box will only go down to 60Hz.
Can I assume they are talking nonsense, how then am I to know what the true figure is?
I realise these companies stretch the figures a little to make sales, but is there a way to find out the truth?
vovo
vovo
A volume increase to 18 litre would be quite noticeable with added weight to the sound from added extension in the bass.
A cube is the worse shape for a speaker (subs OK) as you want all XYZ dimensions to be different. Generally ratios are used to achieve this such as Phi (golden ratio) or variations so use of irrational numbers are used (different panel resonance etc).
I have all the tools available such as table saw, router etc and it's hard to build without them. Straight square cuts are essential for success and good fit up for glue. The minimum tool would be a router as you can do the holes, rebates and square up and trim panel edges using a straight edge guide. I have no idea how much it would cost to be done but you could ask a joinery joint or kitchen builder. There may be members here that live close by that could assist.
63mm is the inside diameter. It's 65NB Class SH PVC sewer pipe. The diameter is chosen to reduce possibility of chuffing (port noise due to high air velocity).
Manufacturers do make claims on the bass but means nothing unless there is reference such as -3dB etc.... a spec without a tolerance is meaningless. The speaker in this thread has an F3=60Hz (F3 is -3dB point) and was chosen to suit a box size even though the driver can go lower in a larger box. So in a way it's been nobbled in a 14 litre box and hasn't got the max out of the driver as it's not really suited to very small boxes. The little Vifa speaker I mentioned before does suit a small box with F3=60Hz in a 9.5 litre box but is the max it can do. So you see that the manufacturers have probably used all the capability of the driver unlike this design which is sort of on idle. That's what loudspeaker design is about to achieve a set application and goal even though that might not use the full capablities of the driver.
Using the Atom as an example they state 50Hz (DIN) which is probably -10dB (with room loading?).... dunno for sure but they state -2dB at 90Hz which would roughly relate to around -3dB at 80-85Hz. The MS 902i is in the same boat as there is no tolerance on the 55Hz number. It's takes a very good 5" woofer to do 55Hz and lower well and these are generally expensive.... SEAS W15LY001 and Scan Speak 15W8530 can break the 50Hz barrier in a small box but are very expensive. The 5" speaker (11 litre) in the pic has recently been completed and has F3=46Hz but you don't want to know the price of the drivers (more than the Atom plus the MS 902i ready to go).
If you see a manufacturer's spec without a tolerance count on that being about 10dB down. There are a lot who do give a tolerance of ±3dB etc which gives a better indication.
A volume increase to 18 litre would be quite noticeable with added weight to the sound from added extension in the bass.
A cube is the worse shape for a speaker (subs OK) as you want all XYZ dimensions to be different. Generally ratios are used to achieve this such as Phi (golden ratio) or variations so use of irrational numbers are used (different panel resonance etc).
I have all the tools available such as table saw, router etc and it's hard to build without them. Straight square cuts are essential for success and good fit up for glue. The minimum tool would be a router as you can do the holes, rebates and square up and trim panel edges using a straight edge guide. I have no idea how much it would cost to be done but you could ask a joinery joint or kitchen builder. There may be members here that live close by that could assist.
63mm is the inside diameter. It's 65NB Class SH PVC sewer pipe. The diameter is chosen to reduce possibility of chuffing (port noise due to high air velocity).
Manufacturers do make claims on the bass but means nothing unless there is reference such as -3dB etc.... a spec without a tolerance is meaningless. The speaker in this thread has an F3=60Hz (F3 is -3dB point) and was chosen to suit a box size even though the driver can go lower in a larger box. So in a way it's been nobbled in a 14 litre box and hasn't got the max out of the driver as it's not really suited to very small boxes. The little Vifa speaker I mentioned before does suit a small box with F3=60Hz in a 9.5 litre box but is the max it can do. So you see that the manufacturers have probably used all the capability of the driver unlike this design which is sort of on idle. That's what loudspeaker design is about to achieve a set application and goal even though that might not use the full capablities of the driver.
Using the Atom as an example they state 50Hz (DIN) which is probably -10dB (with room loading?).... dunno for sure but they state -2dB at 90Hz which would roughly relate to around -3dB at 80-85Hz. The MS 902i is in the same boat as there is no tolerance on the 55Hz number. It's takes a very good 5" woofer to do 55Hz and lower well and these are generally expensive.... SEAS W15LY001 and Scan Speak 15W8530 can break the 50Hz barrier in a small box but are very expensive. The 5" speaker (11 litre) in the pic has recently been completed and has F3=46Hz but you don't want to know the price of the drivers (more than the Atom plus the MS 902i ready to go).
If you see a manufacturer's spec without a tolerance count on that being about 10dB down. There are a lot who do give a tolerance of ±3dB etc which gives a better indication.
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