classd4sure
> A gainclone just isn't in the same class as this
Well GCs are great for the money, but have there faults.
To make sue there is no misinterpretation, it’s the gainclone we heard confusion in, not the UcD (which I’ve yet to hear).
Stefan
> I have noticed substational sonic differances with quite small changes in for example PSU design...
What works best?
So noone has heard any sibilance with the UcD - what tweeters are you using?
> A gainclone just isn't in the same class as this
Well GCs are great for the money, but have there faults.
To make sue there is no misinterpretation, it’s the gainclone we heard confusion in, not the UcD (which I’ve yet to hear).
Stefan
> I have noticed substational sonic differances with quite small changes in for example PSU design...
What works best?
So noone has heard any sibilance with the UcD - what tweeters are you using?
Hey Rick,
As you know, it's possible to DIY just about any amplifier circuit. How does the choice for "King" come down to being between digital or chip amps? 😀
As you know, it's possible to DIY just about any amplifier circuit. How does the choice for "King" come down to being between digital or chip amps? 😀
I’ve seen you before on these forums - trying to trip people up, with facts and logic! But I’m ready for you now Mr Mai.
The three criteria I had in mind for the throne
were:
1 It must sound at least as good as a mid market commercial amp, but preferably much better. (I believe some of the ‘recognised’ commercial amps are as pleasant as fingernails on the chalkboard, gee glad I haven’t got any
). 
2 It must not be too hard do build, so a newcomer has a reasonable prospect of building it with some due diligence, and not too great a risk of frying a digit or smoking the house. So for those people out there who are too much the forum junkie, not enough the doers, I’m giving extra points to simplicity of construction.
3 And for those people tight of wallet, or don’t want to have to lie to their other halves about their audio spanding, it should be attractively priced, to offset the time spent, say max $US 100/ channel, plus PS.
Yes, these criteria tilt the selection to chip and digital solutions.
Using just the first criteria, you might even allow obsolete technologies like tube amps into the selection process,
I believe some people even think they sound best! 😱 
But clearly these old fashioned tube types, like Prince Charles, are unlikely to ever be king. These people look at the rosy glows of their tubes, play wistful female singers and drink strange brews and probably at times smoke fragrant cigarettes, but are just out of touch with reality. There amps are almost as involved as a freakin Linkwitz dipole speaker, man who would want that?
And I hear that at some of these ‘Tube Guy Gatherings’
, some of them are actually solid sold state guys ‘undercover’, probably wearing tweed jackets, there listening to the ultimate valve dreams, then they walk away grinning, and build digital amps in a quarter the time, and laugh at them ha ha!
So what say ye, are these criteria unimpeachable or what?
Down with high electricity consumption! Save the planet!!
Solid state roolz! 
Get with the times man! 
The three criteria I had in mind for the throne
were:1 It must sound at least as good as a mid market commercial amp, but preferably much better. (I believe some of the ‘recognised’ commercial amps are as pleasant as fingernails on the chalkboard, gee glad I haven’t got any
). 2 It must not be too hard do build, so a newcomer has a reasonable prospect of building it with some due diligence, and not too great a risk of frying a digit or smoking the house. So for those people out there who are too much the forum junkie, not enough the doers, I’m giving extra points to simplicity of construction.
3 And for those people tight of wallet, or don’t want to have to lie to their other halves about their audio spanding, it should be attractively priced, to offset the time spent, say max $US 100/ channel, plus PS.
Yes, these criteria tilt the selection to chip and digital solutions.
Using just the first criteria, you might even allow obsolete technologies like tube amps into the selection process,
I believe some people even think they sound best! 😱 But clearly these old fashioned tube types, like Prince Charles, are unlikely to ever be king. These people look at the rosy glows of their tubes, play wistful female singers and drink strange brews and probably at times smoke fragrant cigarettes, but are just out of touch with reality. There amps are almost as involved as a freakin Linkwitz dipole speaker, man who would want that?
And I hear that at some of these ‘Tube Guy Gatherings’
, some of them are actually solid sold state guys ‘undercover’, probably wearing tweed jackets, there listening to the ultimate valve dreams, then they walk away grinning, and build digital amps in a quarter the time, and laugh at them ha ha! So what say ye, are these criteria unimpeachable or what?
Down with high electricity consumption! Save the planet!!
Solid state roolz! Get with the times man! 
The UcD's have the most utterly transparent sound quality of any amp I've heard in my system. I thought they sounded fantastic with the standard NE552 buffers but I recently upgraded them to AD8620. The new buffers have raised the bar yet another notch. I highly doubt that these amps will be replaced in my system for a long while. 🙂 Cheers, mac.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Jeff
What's that term card players use - lay down misere? 😉
There seems nuthin these UcDs don't do well. 😀
Move over Doug, not blameless: faultless?!?
mac
What parts of your Orion are you using them in?
What's that term card players use - lay down misere? 😉
There seems nuthin these UcDs don't do well. 😀
Move over Doug, not blameless: faultless?!?
mac
What parts of your Orion are you using them in?
rick57 said:
Wake up! 😴 You're dreaming again...
Chip amps and Class D modules don't really qualify as DIY amps anyway. They're more like DIY power supplies and chassis. The amp part is already built! 😀
rick57 said:
Rick, These amps make me wish I still had my Orions (well, almost). I've since moved on to a DEQX-based DIY system. I should probably update my avatar. Cheers, mac.
Hi,
A bit unrealistic I think.
For one thing you should define it around a certain power level, that will make a big difference in cost.
Then you should narrow it down further to a certain class of amp.
Gainclains are chip amps, they aren't switching amps though are they? I'm not sure.
You just can't compare a gainclone with a UCD180. That'd be like a Viper Vs a town bus and saying which is better? Well, you can carry more people with the bus but otherwise... (the gainclone is cheaper but otherwise... )
How about just going in basically the same power category like a sonic impact Vs a gainclone. That's more realistic, and I would suspect the gainclone comes up short.
You could also likely do a sonic impact mod for the price range you mentioned, I don't see you meeting that criteria with a UCD, unless maybe you cut every single corner you possibly could and in that would be such a waste.
Are you maybe trying to talk yourself into spending more money than you want to and getting a UCD? That's a tough choice, but yeah, the unspoken KING is undisputed.
Regards,
Chris
A bit unrealistic I think.
For one thing you should define it around a certain power level, that will make a big difference in cost.
Then you should narrow it down further to a certain class of amp.
Gainclains are chip amps, they aren't switching amps though are they? I'm not sure.
You just can't compare a gainclone with a UCD180. That'd be like a Viper Vs a town bus and saying which is better? Well, you can carry more people with the bus but otherwise... (the gainclone is cheaper but otherwise... )
How about just going in basically the same power category like a sonic impact Vs a gainclone. That's more realistic, and I would suspect the gainclone comes up short.
You could also likely do a sonic impact mod for the price range you mentioned, I don't see you meeting that criteria with a UCD, unless maybe you cut every single corner you possibly could and in that would be such a waste.
Are you maybe trying to talk yourself into spending more money than you want to and getting a UCD? That's a tough choice, but yeah, the unspoken KING is undisputed.
Regards,
Chris
Jeff you said:
> Chip amps and Class D modules don't really qualify as DIY amps anyway. They're more like DIY power supplies and chassis. The amp part is already built!
Ok we’re cheatin. But sound comes in and goes out louder, surely it is amplified, yes?
> Ah, so nothing to do with ultimate sound quality then...
Woa there buddy, “sound at least as good as a mid market commercial amp, but preferably much better”. And by virtue of being criteria number 1, it’s most important.
But yes to be the *ultimate * sound quality, who but a joker could think this possible for $90 and three hours work? Maybe in 10 years time . .
Mac
What is your current system? Fountek tweeter + Seas mid +?
Chris
It was deliberately broad, across classes. I was thinking 50 watts should drive most speakers, if amps have more power that would probably mean they have better bass control and dynamics, at higher cost. I understand the scepticism in comparing gainclones with UCD180s. But if you have eg $250 to spend you could buy either, though you’ll get change from the chip amps.
Yes, Gainclones are not switching amps.
Personally I was weighing up whether to drive the two mids in the SL Phoenix, with one GC per driver (four amps), or one UcD per side. I think I’ll do the latter.
If you wish to start a thread based on power level, or sonic impact mod for the price (aka bang for buck) – good idea.
Regards,
> Chip amps and Class D modules don't really qualify as DIY amps anyway. They're more like DIY power supplies and chassis. The amp part is already built!
Ok we’re cheatin. But sound comes in and goes out louder, surely it is amplified, yes?
> Ah, so nothing to do with ultimate sound quality then...
Woa there buddy, “sound at least as good as a mid market commercial amp, but preferably much better”. And by virtue of being criteria number 1, it’s most important.
But yes to be the *ultimate * sound quality, who but a joker could think this possible for $90 and three hours work? Maybe in 10 years time . .
Mac
What is your current system? Fountek tweeter + Seas mid +?
Chris
It was deliberately broad, across classes. I was thinking 50 watts should drive most speakers, if amps have more power that would probably mean they have better bass control and dynamics, at higher cost. I understand the scepticism in comparing gainclones with UCD180s. But if you have eg $250 to spend you could buy either, though you’ll get change from the chip amps.
Yes, Gainclones are not switching amps.
Personally I was weighing up whether to drive the two mids in the SL Phoenix, with one GC per driver (four amps), or one UcD per side. I think I’ll do the latter.
If you wish to start a thread based on power level, or sonic impact mod for the price (aka bang for buck) – good idea.
Regards,
rick57 said:
Fountek JP2 + W15CH001 + dipole SCC300:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You can find more details about mac's system in his gallery
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
He uses the Fountek JP2 tweeter and Seas Excel W15CY 001 midrange in a sealed enclosure, resting on top of a W-Frame with a pair of Sonic Craft SCC300s. The best system I've heard and that's before he introduced the Hypex UcD amps.
Al
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
He uses the Fountek JP2 tweeter and Seas Excel W15CY 001 midrange in a sealed enclosure, resting on top of a W-Frame with a pair of Sonic Craft SCC300s. The best system I've heard and that's before he introduced the Hypex UcD amps.
Al
Jeff
You know: horses for courses. I was limiting the selection to amps easily and cheaply built.
(Sorry if the tube caricature was annoying – I do all the things I suggested that the tube loving stereotype does ~ even wearing tweed 😉 , except to date playing with valves).
My main reservation about them is cost.
A higher level category(s) would make a good thread too, for those higher up the audio food/ $ chain. You could kick off with a costed & cost effective design. Go for it!
Mac
Nice looking gear! Looks like an upmarket UcD implementation, eg Cerafine caps. Did you work out the total cost?
I’m looking at H or W frame dipoles for a hybrid system. What’s your Xo Hz between the W-Frame dipole and the Seas? And (did you say) what was the amp used prior to the UcD, that wasn’t as good?
You know: horses for courses. I was limiting the selection to amps easily and cheaply built.
(Sorry if the tube caricature was annoying – I do all the things I suggested that the tube loving stereotype does ~ even wearing tweed 😉 , except to date playing with valves).
My main reservation about them is cost.
A higher level category(s) would make a good thread too, for those higher up the audio food/ $ chain. You could kick off with a costed & cost effective design. Go for it!
Mac
Nice looking gear! Looks like an upmarket UcD implementation, eg Cerafine caps. Did you work out the total cost?
I’m looking at H or W frame dipoles for a hybrid system. What’s your Xo Hz between the W-Frame dipole and the Seas? And (did you say) what was the amp used prior to the UcD, that wasn’t as good?
no _total_ cost
That seems a little abstract (even to me), can you explain?
And the prior amp? . .
That seems a little abstract (even to me), can you explain?
And the prior amp? . .
well because to me it looks like a cost was no object situation (and so why would you bother keeping a total) and also because it's likely going to be an ongoing project always striving for something more, there can't be a total if the job is never complete.
😀
😀
I alas have no cost no object situation. Are you a millionaire? .
And while many projects are ongoing, it useful to check the results of key stages
And while many projects are ongoing, it useful to check the results of key stages
Did you mean to say "don't" have?
I'm not a millionaire no.
I'm working on a homebrew UCD design right now that will give me 2X50W of clean sound. It will be wired p2p and put into either a tackle box... ok it's a plastic tool box, or maybe an old computer tower if I'm lucky to get one for the 2 cents they're worth... maybe a trip to the dump will do the trick (seriously that's a joke)..
Total cost, power supply and all, I'm aiming for 200$, one and only one order at digikey. I already have my mosfets here, and I already have a 30W simpleton version working on a plastic breadboard that is sounding amazing believe it or not, in fact the sound quality of it shames my old commercial amp (may it rest in peace).
So no I'm not a millionaire, just a DIY'r.
Regards
Chris
I'm not a millionaire no.
I'm working on a homebrew UCD design right now that will give me 2X50W of clean sound. It will be wired p2p and put into either a tackle box... ok it's a plastic tool box, or maybe an old computer tower if I'm lucky to get one for the 2 cents they're worth... maybe a trip to the dump will do the trick (seriously that's a joke)..
Total cost, power supply and all, I'm aiming for 200$, one and only one order at digikey. I already have my mosfets here, and I already have a 30W simpleton version working on a plastic breadboard that is sounding amazing believe it or not, in fact the sound quality of it shames my old commercial amp (may it rest in peace).
So no I'm not a millionaire, just a DIY'r.
Regards
Chris
Chris is right! There is no total cost. 😉 Actually, it's not too difficult to do the math. You already know the cost of the modules. The Cerafine caps were $30 each, the small transformers were $20 each, the large transformers were $40 each, the bridges were $4 each, the chassis cost $45 each, the fancy binding posts and RCA jacks were $9 a pair.
As far as not being done; I'm not sure about that. 🙂
As far as not being done; I'm not sure about that. 🙂
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