I purchased a pair of 104/2 SP3138 about ten years ago, and only really needed to replace the surrounds on the woofers.
The other day, I stopped by a local thrift store, and lo and behold, there sat a pair of SP3037 104/2s in Rosewood, marked $100. I asked the man at the counter what he wanted for them, he suggested I make an offer, so I ended up walking out with them for $50 for the pair.
I get home and disasemble them to see what needs to be done, to find the following typical issues:
some veneer peeling
no floor spikes/feet
one grille has two loose pegs, the other needs the bracing re-glued
all 4 woofers are dry rotted @ the surrounds
lots of dust
one of the speaker binding posts is broken/cracked
one of the lower MF drivers (sealed in the block unit) is cracked from dust cap to surround, and the surround is separating.
I order some replacement surrounds, floor spikes, and terminals.
I proceed to polish up and dust the cabinets, gluing the veneer back in place where it's come up at the seems. I loc-tite in some new adjustable floor spikes, and replace the plastic binding posts with gold ones.
I replace the surrounds of the woofers, then glue the cone back together on the MF driver, sealing it with silicone adhesive, and re-gluing the surround in place.
After all is said and done, I've spent about $ 170 total including cost of speakers, and have a lovely new pair of KEFs!
slide show of some pucs below:
KEF 1042 :: KEF Reference 104/2 SP3037 slideshow by Glass_Wolf - Photobucket
I have an Adcom GFA-555 II on the way for them as I type this.
The other day, I stopped by a local thrift store, and lo and behold, there sat a pair of SP3037 104/2s in Rosewood, marked $100. I asked the man at the counter what he wanted for them, he suggested I make an offer, so I ended up walking out with them for $50 for the pair.
I get home and disasemble them to see what needs to be done, to find the following typical issues:
some veneer peeling
no floor spikes/feet
one grille has two loose pegs, the other needs the bracing re-glued
all 4 woofers are dry rotted @ the surrounds
lots of dust
one of the speaker binding posts is broken/cracked
one of the lower MF drivers (sealed in the block unit) is cracked from dust cap to surround, and the surround is separating.
I order some replacement surrounds, floor spikes, and terminals.
I proceed to polish up and dust the cabinets, gluing the veneer back in place where it's come up at the seems. I loc-tite in some new adjustable floor spikes, and replace the plastic binding posts with gold ones.
I replace the surrounds of the woofers, then glue the cone back together on the MF driver, sealing it with silicone adhesive, and re-gluing the surround in place.
After all is said and done, I've spent about $ 170 total including cost of speakers, and have a lovely new pair of KEFs!
slide show of some pucs below:
KEF 1042 :: KEF Reference 104/2 SP3037 slideshow by Glass_Wolf - Photobucket
I have an Adcom GFA-555 II on the way for them as I type this.
They sound great. The Adcom hadn't arrived et, so I ran them just to test them out on my Onkyo AVR, which is sufficient, but not really having the kahunas to let the KEFs breathe. I played Cas Haley's Survive CD, track 2 (Walking on the moon) and the "in the room" feel was great.
As for the tweeters, I'm leaving them stock, but to be honest I'm not a fan of overly aggressive, bright tweeters, so these soft domes work for me. They're more laid back and smooth, which is the feel I prefer. I've worked for 25 years in car audio, and the system in my car uses DynAudio 3-ways for the front stage, which have a very similar tweeter and timbre to them as the KEFs, since they also use a 6dB Q on the crossovers, with (oddly similar) 1" silk tweeters, 4" midrange (sealed), and 8" midbass drivers. Funny that I never made the comparison before.. haha
Anyway, thank you for the compliments. I appreciate them. I've been in love with the 104/2s since around 1990 when I first heard a pair at an audio store in Virginia while I was in college. I just didn't have $3600 back then to buy them. I was living with a Kenwood matched rack system at the time instead.. haha (shudder to think) It took me ten years to finally get around to buying my first pair, but I'm still happy with them. The only speakers I've even considered getting to replace them have been some ESLs, such as the MartinLogan Vantages. They're the closest thing I've found to giving me the "live, in the studio/room/New Orleans small night club/bar" feel.
As for the tweeters, I'm leaving them stock, but to be honest I'm not a fan of overly aggressive, bright tweeters, so these soft domes work for me. They're more laid back and smooth, which is the feel I prefer. I've worked for 25 years in car audio, and the system in my car uses DynAudio 3-ways for the front stage, which have a very similar tweeter and timbre to them as the KEFs, since they also use a 6dB Q on the crossovers, with (oddly similar) 1" silk tweeters, 4" midrange (sealed), and 8" midbass drivers. Funny that I never made the comparison before.. haha
Anyway, thank you for the compliments. I appreciate them. I've been in love with the 104/2s since around 1990 when I first heard a pair at an audio store in Virginia while I was in college. I just didn't have $3600 back then to buy them. I was living with a Kenwood matched rack system at the time instead.. haha (shudder to think) It took me ten years to finally get around to buying my first pair, but I'm still happy with them. The only speakers I've even considered getting to replace them have been some ESLs, such as the MartinLogan Vantages. They're the closest thing I've found to giving me the "live, in the studio/room/New Orleans small night club/bar" feel.
i still like them, too. i've had my rosewood 104/2 for quite a while ('80s?). i've replaced the midrange units on both about 10 years ago and had no other problems.
i know it's a matter of personal taste, but you'd have to pry them from my cold, dead hands (unless you offered me some nice Sound Labs electrostatics)
mlloyd1
i know it's a matter of personal taste, but you'd have to pry them from my cold, dead hands (unless you offered me some nice Sound Labs electrostatics)
mlloyd1
Hi Glasswolf, I bought a used pair of 104.2 a couple of months ago, at which time, the dust caps were intact. After I drove it with Harman Kardon Citation 16, the dust caps of both lower woofers were now broken--I didn't check the upper woofers. The surrounds are made of rubber and they are still intact. Can you share your process how you get to the woofers? Thanks keffan
I was looking into these kits myself, but in certain cases it does not make that much difference. They are easy enough to fit if you are a confident diyer. Just make sure if you are intending replacing both inner and outer rings that you buy the proper size, (some kits dont fit properly, measure the dimensions with verniers if unsure) and most importantly get the kit with shims to centre the driver properly. It cant be done accurately by hand. And make sure you follow the guide carefully, and don't rush it.
B200 drivers seem to come in a few variations, the ones i have have rubber outers, and foam inners. This is not such an issue when the foams perish. My friend had a set the same and he hoovered the foam donuts Away completely, with no adverse effect. They seem to just be dust caps, and not integral to the structure of the driver.
There are other versions with foam inners and outers, now these are a different kettle of fish. If the drivers have foam on both then get them done ASAP. As if both are perished and fail, you are in for a world of hurt.
Hope that helps.
You wont regret buying them, ill take the pepsi challenge against most comparable systems. But worth updating the tweets with kef replacements. I got sp1353 tweets from kef (bit pricey at £130 a set), but if they are the original t33 tweets they are ferro fluid tweets, and these deteriorate badly over time.
Im very reluctant to part with my set, unless someone offers me a set of JM Focals.
They sound amazing. But there are better speakers if you are willing to part with some serious cash. Or build a set.
Indeed they do, i still have to hear a better set of speakers that i can actually afford to buy.
Maybe Consider replacing the tweets with Kef replacements. I heard no issue with my set until i replaced the tweets. Twas like i had removed a set of ear plugs then had my ears cleaned. Night and Day!!
The ferro fluid gradually deteriorates over time. Not really noticeable until you replace them.
Sp1353
Best speaking to Kef, Thats where i got mine. They were around £130. Fits like a glove.
Hope this helps
I recently purchased a set of Kef 104/2 and so far I am impressed. I don't really have my front end up and running at this stage to accurately gauge how they're performing, but so far I am impressed with the bottom end and the smooth top end. Not too sure what to make of the midrange at the moment.
I am also running a set of fully restored Gale 401A's and 402's, which have very good midrange, and the Kef's appear to lack midrange weight in comparison.
I read in this thread that consideration should be given to replacing the tweeters, but I was of the understanding the original tweeters were no longer produced and were not available??
I restored the Gales at no expense and upgraded all the caps and resistors with modern hi-end equivelents. I'm now wondering if perhaps the Kef crossovers could do with some attention and particularly checking the values of the caps to make sure they're still within an acceptable tolerances.
I purchased the Kef's from a young bloke and I get the feeling he drove them quite hard with a very average amplifier.
Anyway I am looking forward to hearing them properly when I get my TT running.
Cheers, Pete.
I am also running a set of fully restored Gale 401A's and 402's, which have very good midrange, and the Kef's appear to lack midrange weight in comparison.
I read in this thread that consideration should be given to replacing the tweeters, but I was of the understanding the original tweeters were no longer produced and were not available??
I restored the Gales at no expense and upgraded all the caps and resistors with modern hi-end equivelents. I'm now wondering if perhaps the Kef crossovers could do with some attention and particularly checking the values of the caps to make sure they're still within an acceptable tolerances.
I purchased the Kef's from a young bloke and I get the feeling he drove them quite hard with a very average amplifier.
Anyway I am looking forward to hearing them properly when I get my TT running.
Cheers, Pete.
Be aware that KEF reference series used selected parts for many components. Capacitor and Inductors would be sorted into tolerance bands and a chart would show which tolerance bands to mate with which. That way KEF could use wide tolerance parts and get tighter tolerences than the competition. Drivers were built in batches of 96 and they would be sorted into best pairs. Sometimes the driver pairs would be tied to commpensated networks.
Random replacement with "better" components isn't really wise. I would measure capacitor values, and if they seemed reasonably close to marked values then leave them alone.
David S.
Random replacement with "better" components isn't really wise. I would measure capacitor values, and if they seemed reasonably close to marked values then leave them alone.
David S.
They bought +-10% but sorted them into 2 or 3% groups (if I remember correctly). Replacing the caps with values exactly as marked would be to shift them from their original vaues. Not a horrible thing but less good than leaving them at their current value.
The schematic was actually a chart saying, "use this cap tolerance band with this inductor tolerance band".
David S.
I recently purchased a set of Kef 104/2 and so far I am impressed. I don't really have my front end up and running at this stage to accurately gauge how they're performing, but so far I am impressed with the bottom end and the smooth top end. Not too sure what to make of the midrange at the moment.
I read in this thread that consideration should be given to replacing the tweeters, but I was of the understanding the original tweeters were no longer produced and were not available??
I restored the Gales at no expense and upgraded all the caps and resistors with modern hi-end equivelents. I'm now wondering if perhaps the Kef crossovers could do with some attention and particularly checking the values of the caps to make sure they're still within an acceptable tolerances.
I purchased the Kef's from a young bloke and I get the feeling he drove them quite hard with a very average amplifier.
Anyway I am looking forward to hearing them properly when I get my TT running.
Cheers, Pete.
My 104/2's were a serious upgrade for me when i got them about 6 years ago. At the time i was running a nad c320bee amp, and a philips cd723. While i always was happy with them i knew that the same as yourself my front end had some serious weak links that needed attention.
6 years later, and my system is now leaps and bounds ahead of where it was when i first bought the kefs, the only change i have made to the kefs is replacing the worn out original ferro-fluid tweets. And tightening up all the fixings, especially in the bottom plates as they go very loose over time (i wondered why i could never get them to stop rocking about on the spikes or feet)
. And where all the bottom end had gone...lolAs for the tweets, i would recommend using the kef sp1353 with 104/2 single wire versions sp3037. They were recommended by, and purchased from kef, and sound superb, and i think are still available if you give them a call. But it depends on whether you think they need replacing, i was missing a lot of audio till i replaced mine.
Finally the crossovers, i did consider replacing the components myself, i searched the internet for advice, and numerous times the subject came up of how anal Kef were with the components used in the crossovers for the reference series, especially the 104/2's. IMO unless there is an audible issue (as a friend has with his 104ab's), they are best left alone, or should be the final thing considered for tweaking, or modding. I thought that maybe Kef knew a thing or 2 more about crossovers than me
After getting a Dacmagic 1 a few weeks ago, and replacing the caps with audio grades and oscons, and installing lm4562 opamps, the Kefs are sounding truly astounding. The stereo image, instrument separation, and level of detail still has me sitting with mouth agasp! Its just how i imagined they should have sounded all those years ago when i bought them. Ah well....better late than never.
My advice, if you aint got one, get a DAC!!
Hi David,
I'm a big believer if it aint broke then don't fix it!! I am concerned that the previous owner may have over-driven the speakers with an underpowered amplifier.
I would only change crossover components if they require it due to being unserviceable, or if the tolerances are not acceptable to achieve maximum performance.
I am also aware that changing for change sake, or incorrect upgrading of original components can have a significant, and often detrimental impact to the the signature sound of any speaker.
But they do have the worst binding posts - just crap!! I will upgrade them to Eichmanns for sure.
I will have the crossovers and tweeters measured to ensure they are within acceptable parameters and so I can be reassured the speakers are operating as they should be. I employ a very good hi-fi technician to do this sort of work for me, and he is quite pedantic about keeping everything original and to spec.
The caps in the crossovers for the Gale 401A's I recently restored were all way out of spec with weird values. One of the 6.0 µF caps was 9.5µF, one of the
7µF caps was over 10µF, and one which should have been 80 was 110!
Cheers, Pete.
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