Karlsonator

[moray james]

that is very interesting to know. Thanks.

 

[freddi]

here's a "Karlsonator" using a 4 inch automotive coax - qt probably around 1 (?) (Google Chrome will offer to translate)

Wall

perhaps someone can track down the story of the K-tubes on this one - I'll make an assumption that's a dome tweeter
fitted into the base.

 

[xrk971]

Freddi,
Who made this and how did they come up with the height and width? Seems a bit too tall and K aperture slot is too wide to allow wave to come down to driver front. All that pressure just leaks through that front gap. Kool looking though.

 

[freddi]

dunno - - someone in Russia I guess - look at the stubby K--tube - that is a lot of leak for a tiny driver - I've used ~1.5" starting gap for one little 18" coupler - mainly to restore proper midrange balance - the microphone could not tell the difference.

 

[JC Fardo]

K´s vs. room size

Hi

I´m completely new to Karsonators principles and the first question that comes up refers to K box size in a room size that is adequate to it. My room is around 290 sqft. so I think 5" or 6" FR is ok.

Please advise.

TIA

 

[xrk971]

You'll want the 0.53x scale Karlsonator with either dual TC9FD's or single PA130-8's. Dual 3FE25 would also be excellent. That will get quite loud. If you are looking for just background "radio" music then 0.4x with 3FE25 or even TC9FD can work well.

 

[JC Fardo]

Hi xrk971

Thanks for fast reply. That could be for stereo music like all others outfits with FR Horns or TL enclosures.

In other words you mean that a K6 Fostex 166 is overkill?

AND you can pick a cheapper driver like Daytons.

Foam enclosures are an option, can use plywood, mdf, and stuff?

Please be patient, lots of question to coming later, through the learning curve

Again TIA

 

[xrk971]

Fostex 166 can work too - did I model that one already? Not sure what your budget is I have you fairly economical ones. K'nator is not a "hifi" speaker but a very enjoyable music listening speaker. So don't spend too much on pricey drivers. Plywood or MDF work as well.

Although Lowthers can work in them as well. The K aperture may actually tame all that ragged breakup hash.

 

[Greg B]

K'nator is not a "hifi" speaker but a very enjoyable music listening speaker.

Until fairly recently, that was said about full range drivers in general!

 

[freddi]

FE166EN should be pretty good in a Karlsonator 6 - a "K6" scaled from K15 would not have any low bass - I had GregB's old de-whizzered FE164 in the rough looking Karlsonator 6 prototype and it played quite well including slapped upright bass

 

[JC Fardo]

OK. I got some starting points for more homework and investigations.
Follwing this thread with lots of interest.
Thank you guys for clarifications.

 

[freddi]

hey Greg B- what would be your suggestions as to allow the Karlsonator 12 a somewhat higher tuning? I'm not even sure if that would be useful with a lot of speakers. Its the best I've heard with Beta 12LTA and much superior to open baffle use of that speaker and worked well with Nirvana's stamped frame Super 10.

I can tell the term "Kar;lsonator" is catching on around the globe and that sometimes its used interchangeably with the original Karlson type

the Karlsonator 12 seems nicely tuned for Beta 12LTA as sometimes a much higher 2nd Z peak than the first is undesirable

Karlsonator 12 input Z with Beta12lta

1954 Karlsonette K12 input Z with Beta12cx

 

[Greg B]

From that graph, the Karlsonette tuning looks about 63 ish. (?)

IIRC, sims seem to indicate that opening the vent area for the Karlsonator has surprisingly little effect on tuning. The obvious answer is to make the whole thing shorter and smaller.

If you wanted to mod an existing Karlsonator 12, perhaps a wider front slot open all the way to the top would help. Also maybe try an angled reflector/styrofoam/etc in the bottom and top corners to reduce volume a bit -- and perhaps shorten effective length too.

 

[freddi]

I've play a day or so with Beta 10cx in the original Karlsonator 12 and would like to know from GregB and XRK971 how much smaller it might be made for that particular driver.

mine is sitting with woofer about 4 foot from the floor right now - my pc with all software and K-graphs died a few days ago

it seems to handle things like Charly Antolini's "Knockout 2000" album at goodly levels with about 3/16" maximum p-p excursion - my Crown's meters are inscrutable - but would assume >100 watt peaks. Eminence's ASD1001 makes sweet treble even with cheap Chinese "Audiophiler" caps (those have close tolerance and low ESR) - even with it way off the floor, there's some semblance of bass on theater and Hammond organ recordings.

I's like to know if a somewhat smaller Karlsonator 10 could exhibit even more punch and still be "hi-fi". B102 plus a K-tube could be an option.

I'll have to pit the Karlsonator/Beta10cx combo against Beta10cx in a 0.62 scale K15

 

[snake69fast]

Please help me to chose the right enclosures for these 12" speakers:


Impedance: 8 Ohm
Minimum frequency response: 31Hz
Reproduction frequency response : Fo - 17K
SPL: 94,587db/W(m)
Rated Input: 30W
Music Power: 45W
Equivalent diagram radius: 135mm
Equivalent mass: 29,786g
Magnet wight: 1350g
Net Weight: 5050g
Fs: 31.24Hz
Re: 7.2 Ohm
Mms: 36.331g
BL: 9.810TM
QTS: 0.495
QMS: 6.907
QES: 0.534
Vas: 259.741
Xmax: 1.0mm
no: 1.435%

Thank you!

 

[Greg B]

Those specs are suited to a Karlsonator at first glance. The Vas is rather huge though at 260 liters. While it might be OK in the standard Karlsonator, my first inclination would be to scale up the width and depth, keeping the tuning about the same.

 

[freddi]

in case xrk971 reads these posts, here's the driver specs in akabak form - I'd guess the voice coil inductance
to be around 0.6mH for this type

Def_Driver 'Snake69Fast" |Notes: 12 inch fullrange SPL: 94,587db 30 watt 1mm xmax Qts 0.495
Sd=572.56cm2
fs=31.24
Mms=36.331g
Qms=6.907
Qes=0.534
Re=7.2
BL: 9.810TM
Le=0.6mH
Vas: 259.741

 

[freddi]

I'd like some thoughts on:
(1) tuning Karlsonator8 & 12 somewhat higher
(2) sizing/proportioning a new Karlsonaor somewhat smaller than Karlsonator12 for use with Eminence's Beta10cx.

btw, GregB's Karlsonator12 works quite well with Eminence Beta12LTA and Nirvana's old stamped frame Super10. I intend to load it with a strong motor Eminence 10cx with 80oz motor for evaluation.

Beta10cx is not the most lively thing in the critical midrange compared to a good fullrange, but it has durability and can deliver bass power making it a decent all around speaker suitable for HT.

I have one Beta10cx in a 0.62 scale (~0.238 volume) K15 and one in the Karlsonator12 which is nominally tuned to 38Hz - 38Hz is the effective LF corner of that combination.

I'd like a Karlsonator10 - if that can offer a punchy compromise - IIRC, xrk971's XKi alignment for Beta10cx is 60 liters total (45 rear chamber, 15 front)

60 liter XKi for Beta10cx - just about the bulk of a K12

Karlsonator8

TheJessMan's Karlsonator 8's tuning with a Visaton BG20
is around 40Hz

Beta10cx in a 0.62 scale (~0.283 volume) K15

Beta10cx in a Karlsonator12 - no problems with cone jump at high levels - its just somewhat large
and perhaps a somewhat smaller version tuned somewhat higher would have more punch

 

[freddi]

any ideas for one more K? - I want one really good in its class and a "horn beater" for its size - must sound spectacular, articulate, jack-hammer punch - - K-Tube always welcomed for 2-way

 

[xrk971]

I think you need a big XKi. Like a Deltalite II 2515 15in or something like 100dB sensitivity. The XKi controls cone excursion very well so SPL should be able to go pretty high. Of course use with K tube tweeter crossed around 1.2kHz.

Tune box to 41Hz and hit the low bass notes.

99.5dB should be something special - price seems very reasonable for a neo magnet driver with this kind of sensitivity. I think it will have a jack hammer punch and is articulate with fairly light cone (72g) and smooth breakup free response out to 3kHz.

Let me know and I will work up box and vent dimensions for you.

http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-deltalite-ii-2515-neo-15-speaker-driver--290-595