Done a search on here and google and can’t find what I am looking for.
So, anyone got a link(s) to the Kairos 3 way build with the SB 29NRX75-6 with the SB 29NRX passive radiator (rather than sealed or vented) or actually any build with this combo?
Thanks in advance.
So, anyone got a link(s) to the Kairos 3 way build with the SB 29NRX75-6 with the SB 29NRX passive radiator (rather than sealed or vented) or actually any build with this combo?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the reply, in the write up it has a model for the PR and model response plus comments on removing the weight. Also an option in the Meniscus Kairos Woofer kit.
https://meniscus.lightningbasehoste...he-Kairos-and-Continuum-Three-Way-Writeup.pdf - page 6.
Kairos Woofer Module Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
https://meniscus.lightningbasehoste...he-Kairos-and-Continuum-Three-Way-Writeup.pdf - page 6.
Kairos Woofer Module Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
Then what is the issue? You didn't purchase the kit and have the drivers?
You'll have to purchase the xover design from Meniscus as that is proprietary property.
Later,
Wolf
You'll have to purchase the xover design from Meniscus as that is proprietary property.
Later,
Wolf
Not bought anything yet, was looking for a write up on how it sounded and where they put the OR in the box (taking subjectivity into account) but could not find any builds online with that info.
I have the three way kairos and put the woofers in the 2 cu ft vented and really like it. I also like that I can stuff the ports when I want to. Although I usually prefer them ported, there are some recordings that sound better with the ports stuffed. I don’t like passive radiators because of the cost and you can’t try them sealed when you want to.
Thanks Mordikai for the response, much appreciated.
As a supplementary question, anyone compared the Kairos 3 Way (SB woofer) with the Troels Gravesen SB10 - they seem to be very similar superficially (same drivers, similar volumes).
SBAcoustics 10
As a supplementary question, anyone compared the Kairos 3 Way (SB woofer) with the Troels Gravesen SB10 - they seem to be very similar superficially (same drivers, similar volumes).
SBAcoustics 10
I think you should just enjoy the two way Kairos.It is an excellent speaker.
Perhaps add a pair of active subs if you want more bass.
I tried those woofers and the suggested 3 way crossover and found that although it improved dynamics and bass extension it sounded rhythmically smeared and disjointed so detracted from the overall performance.
Perhaps add a pair of active subs if you want more bass.
I tried those woofers and the suggested 3 way crossover and found that although it improved dynamics and bass extension it sounded rhythmically smeared and disjointed so detracted from the overall performance.
jtgofish - many thanks for the insight, do you think it would improve if the 2 way Kairos were sealed rather than ported (understanding that a xover change would be required)?
For info I am currently running a pair of Mackie HR824 actives with a pair of Wharfedale SW150's which are therefore a 1"+8" monitor with a passive radiator and a 10" ported sub in a small cabinet. I am enjoying this combination with my preferred type of music (tech/prog metal/rock, djent, Scandinavian melodeath etc.) so looking to projects with a similar feel (fast/dynamic/tight bass + forward mid range for male voice and guitar + natural but clean top end for cymbals - rhythm and note separation are key).
However my room leaves a lot to be desired and so am running Equilizer APO/Peace to try and tame the room, may move over to minidsp which will give me the option of a digital Xover and Room Eq in the future (Nanodigi).
On the list so far are -
Kairos 3 way
Troels SB941 or SB10
Tarkus
or I have modelled up a 2 x Dayton ES180TiA + 10F8424 + SB26CDC in a 40l floor stander which looks to work well with LR4 xovers
Just planning at the moment as I have other projects to finish and stuff at home to sort but speakers are next on my list.
For info I am currently running a pair of Mackie HR824 actives with a pair of Wharfedale SW150's which are therefore a 1"+8" monitor with a passive radiator and a 10" ported sub in a small cabinet. I am enjoying this combination with my preferred type of music (tech/prog metal/rock, djent, Scandinavian melodeath etc.) so looking to projects with a similar feel (fast/dynamic/tight bass + forward mid range for male voice and guitar + natural but clean top end for cymbals - rhythm and note separation are key).
However my room leaves a lot to be desired and so am running Equilizer APO/Peace to try and tame the room, may move over to minidsp which will give me the option of a digital Xover and Room Eq in the future (Nanodigi).
On the list so far are -
Kairos 3 way
Troels SB941 or SB10
Tarkus
or I have modelled up a 2 x Dayton ES180TiA + 10F8424 + SB26CDC in a 40l floor stander which looks to work well with LR4 xovers
Just planning at the moment as I have other projects to finish and stuff at home to sort but speakers are next on my list.
In his 3-way write-up, Jeff Bagby suggests using a side-side arrangement when using both the SB29NRX75 woofer and SB29NRX passive radiator.
If you decide upon a side-side woofer arrangement, you should also consider a pair of 8in SB23NACS45-8, which would be about the same price, and also give you the option of a future narrow baffle all front-facing TMWW speaker cabinet, which is very popular.
Building separate TM and W cabinets would give you some usage flexibility. In Kairos reviews, the owners favor the sound of a sealed cabinet over the ported.
Bi-Amping would give you greater room-bass equalization control, and slightly tighter bass transients from direct connection of a low resistance amplifier.
If you decide upon a side-side woofer arrangement, you should also consider a pair of 8in SB23NACS45-8, which would be about the same price, and also give you the option of a future narrow baffle all front-facing TMWW speaker cabinet, which is very popular.
Building separate TM and W cabinets would give you some usage flexibility. In Kairos reviews, the owners favor the sound of a sealed cabinet over the ported.
Bi-Amping would give you greater room-bass equalization control, and slightly tighter bass transients from direct connection of a low resistance amplifier.
Attachments
i have just started to explore mtm setups and what a revelation, maybe it is my concrete bunker as a listening room, but spreading out the woofers gives a much linear low freq response and a much bigger sense of scale of the sound field. so i would like to rec'd to consider wtmw or even wmtmw over tmww
i would also like to rec'd you to listen to vola (simply fantastic), and edge of reality 'in static' (for the fun)
i would also like to rec'd you to listen to vola (simply fantastic), and edge of reality 'in static' (for the fun)
Thanks guy for the suggestions, will do more searching and reading.
I know of Vola and like, will look into Edge of Reality. Just back from Download festival, Opeth, Animals as Leaders, Dream Theatre we’re all excellent, also seeing AAL plus Monuments in a couple of weeks at a small prog metal festival.
Currently on my heavy rotation are Voices from the fuselage, Sithu Aye, Tesseract (brilliant live), Periphery (seeing them later in the year), Pliny, Nova Collective, Haken, Vitalism, Distorted Harmony, chimp spanner and a few more similar plus Soen, Kauan, Swallow the Sun, Slice the Cake, Celar Darling, Pain of Salvation which are darker melodic death metal. Also came across Gone Cosmic who are a 70’s throwback led zep meets Janice Joplin style and War Curse who are old school thrash megadeth meets anthrax.
I know of Vola and like, will look into Edge of Reality. Just back from Download festival, Opeth, Animals as Leaders, Dream Theatre we’re all excellent, also seeing AAL plus Monuments in a couple of weeks at a small prog metal festival.
Currently on my heavy rotation are Voices from the fuselage, Sithu Aye, Tesseract (brilliant live), Periphery (seeing them later in the year), Pliny, Nova Collective, Haken, Vitalism, Distorted Harmony, chimp spanner and a few more similar plus Soen, Kauan, Swallow the Sun, Slice the Cake, Celar Darling, Pain of Salvation which are darker melodic death metal. Also came across Gone Cosmic who are a 70’s throwback led zep meets Janice Joplin style and War Curse who are old school thrash megadeth meets anthrax.
A slanted baffle T-M is time aligned for one optimal listening distance. If you want to also use the TM cabinet for desktop short distance listening, you might consider a (1) stepped baffle time alignment, where a rounded baffle helps appearance; (2) LR4/LR4 crossover fast-phase-shift circuits. where baffle edge bevels reduce distortion; (3) passive LC-ladder all-pass time delay circuit (Troels Illuminator Monitor)
Attachments
Extended Troels' list---
---There are several engineering ways to "overcome" the Mid-Tweet time-alignment problem:
#1. Machine a 2-height stepped baffle which physically time-aligns the tweeter to the midrange at the LR2/LR2 crossover frequency.
#2. Use an asymmetrical crossover usually consisting of 2nd order to the bass and 3rd order to the tweeter to make "proper" phase integration.
#3. Use 4th order filters to both drivers, e.g. LR4, and due to the large phase shift, the lack of alignment is negligible - although Troels feels it isn't.
#4. Tilt the front panel so the different T vs M triangle edge lengths at the listener ears more or less compensate for the time difference at that one distance.
#5. Add a tweeter waveguide of the correct depth.
#6. Place the tweeter below the midbass so the different T vs M edge lengths plus the T's upward sloping polar lobe at the listener ears will "somewhat" compensate for the time difference
#7. Use an all-pass L-C ladder filter to delay tweeter response.
#8. Ignore the problem and implement a simple 2nd order filter which produces a decent linear frequency response.
---There are several engineering ways to "overcome" the Mid-Tweet time-alignment problem:
#1. Machine a 2-height stepped baffle which physically time-aligns the tweeter to the midrange at the LR2/LR2 crossover frequency.
#2. Use an asymmetrical crossover usually consisting of 2nd order to the bass and 3rd order to the tweeter to make "proper" phase integration.
#3. Use 4th order filters to both drivers, e.g. LR4, and due to the large phase shift, the lack of alignment is negligible - although Troels feels it isn't.
#4. Tilt the front panel so the different T vs M triangle edge lengths at the listener ears more or less compensate for the time difference at that one distance.
#5. Add a tweeter waveguide of the correct depth.
#6. Place the tweeter below the midbass so the different T vs M edge lengths plus the T's upward sloping polar lobe at the listener ears will "somewhat" compensate for the time difference
#7. Use an all-pass L-C ladder filter to delay tweeter response.
#8. Ignore the problem and implement a simple 2nd order filter which produces a decent linear frequency response.
Many thanks again linesource, much appreciated.
I am likely to go for dsp crossover therefore have the choice of physical or software time alignment. I am unlikely to use the monitor separately which is why I asked about putting the mid in a closed box.
I am likely to go for dsp crossover therefore have the choice of physical or software time alignment. I am unlikely to use the monitor separately which is why I asked about putting the mid in a closed box.
The problem with physical offset is that it changes off-axis laterally. This leads to lower energy at xo range in power response. However, I believe that good phase match on-axis and in linstening angle +/-15deg is most important.
SB 29NRX-75 is a really nice driver, I used it as sealed in 3-ways, with dsp.
SB 29NRX-75 is a really nice driver, I used it as sealed in 3-ways, with dsp.
Ugg10,
I have heard Jeff's Kairos (the two-way slanted monitor version) and more recently designed a 3-way add-on version with the CSS woofer under a pair of Kairos boxes. In my opinion I think you would be making a big mistake if you choose to redo the monitor passive crossover and the add-on woofers with a DSP crossover for the resultant three way.
What I recommend is to build the passive crossover Kairos monitors as is. Jeff Bagby devoted a great deal of effort (as you can read in his writing) to perfect the Kairos' crossover and I doubt that a DSP version would yield the same performance for these monitors.
If you need additional bass coverage for your listening needs, then Jeff's add-on woofer boxes would be my suggestion for the most straight forward approach for a passive approach. You can then experiment with listening with the port tubes open or stuffed to fit your listening needs.
Beyond the passive woofer add-ons and if your room situation dictates additional room correction capability, then DSP bi-amplified subwoofer boxes can be employed under the passive Kairos monitors. My experience has been that the majority of room correction tweaks are over the bass region of the frequency band. The active sub boxes can be volume level adjusted to blend with the monitors while any room corrections can be made via DSP capabilities.
Several DSP sub-amplifiers are available to implement the crossover between the woofers and the Kairos monitors or perhaps you have other equipment to achieve the same functionality.
Jim
I have heard Jeff's Kairos (the two-way slanted monitor version) and more recently designed a 3-way add-on version with the CSS woofer under a pair of Kairos boxes. In my opinion I think you would be making a big mistake if you choose to redo the monitor passive crossover and the add-on woofers with a DSP crossover for the resultant three way.
What I recommend is to build the passive crossover Kairos monitors as is. Jeff Bagby devoted a great deal of effort (as you can read in his writing) to perfect the Kairos' crossover and I doubt that a DSP version would yield the same performance for these monitors.
If you need additional bass coverage for your listening needs, then Jeff's add-on woofer boxes would be my suggestion for the most straight forward approach for a passive approach. You can then experiment with listening with the port tubes open or stuffed to fit your listening needs.
Beyond the passive woofer add-ons and if your room situation dictates additional room correction capability, then DSP bi-amplified subwoofer boxes can be employed under the passive Kairos monitors. My experience has been that the majority of room correction tweaks are over the bass region of the frequency band. The active sub boxes can be volume level adjusted to blend with the monitors while any room corrections can be made via DSP capabilities.
Several DSP sub-amplifiers are available to implement the crossover between the woofers and the Kairos monitors or perhaps you have other equipment to achieve the same functionality.
Jim
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