Today I recieved my jx92s's.
The boxes are built, ML TQWT's.
So, I started thinking about the small stuff one never really considers.
Connectors, internal wiring and such.
How much power can one realistically expect the driver to handle/need?
How many Amperes (Current) should I use when doing the math for the cables?
I am thinking about Multiple braided solid core silver wires with a combined 16AWG.
The rating would be 12A for the internal cables.
Just enough, too little or more than enough?
The boxes are built, ML TQWT's.
So, I started thinking about the small stuff one never really considers.
Connectors, internal wiring and such.
How much power can one realistically expect the driver to handle/need?
How many Amperes (Current) should I use when doing the math for the cables?
I am thinking about Multiple braided solid core silver wires with a combined 16AWG.
The rating would be 12A for the internal cables.
Just enough, too little or more than enough?
For the wire: Speaker Wire -note it's for copper; silver you can get away with a slightly thinner gauge. 16ga internally should be perfectly sufficient.
I wouldn't be especially concerned about the driver's power-rating. Nominally it's 50w continuous or 100w music, but you'll hear the driver start to break up well before you fry the VC etc. (unless you have zero mechanical sympathy). Just use some common sense & don't expect it to shift air in the LF like an 18in woofer. Make sure your connections are good; they generally cause more trouble than wire ever has.
The JX92S is not the most reticent of drivers in the higher frequencies, so, at the risk of lending credence to quackery, given that silver (esp. when coated with teflon) is often regarded as sounding bright, you might want to rethink that. Alternatively, carry on, & use something like 8ga mono-runs of copper for the main speaker cable if you're feeling excessive, or unzip some 10ga (or whatever) zip cord & use that if you're feeling under-endowed in the wallet department. The added inductance will take the HF down.
I wouldn't be especially concerned about the driver's power-rating. Nominally it's 50w continuous or 100w music, but you'll hear the driver start to break up well before you fry the VC etc. (unless you have zero mechanical sympathy). Just use some common sense & don't expect it to shift air in the LF like an 18in woofer. Make sure your connections are good; they generally cause more trouble than wire ever has.
The JX92S is not the most reticent of drivers in the higher frequencies, so, at the risk of lending credence to quackery, given that silver (esp. when coated with teflon) is often regarded as sounding bright, you might want to rethink that. Alternatively, carry on, & use something like 8ga mono-runs of copper for the main speaker cable if you're feeling excessive, or unzip some 10ga (or whatever) zip cord & use that if you're feeling under-endowed in the wallet department. The added inductance will take the HF down.
That does come a little as a surprise to me I must admit?
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I remembered reading something about the jx92s a while back. I thought it was supposed to be a little soft on top and rolling off somewhat at higher frequencies, especially when you look at the diagrams. On axis the curve measures straight but off axis it falls off at higher frequencies.
Anywho... I can always change if i does become "bright".
I'm happy that 16AWG seams sufficient. 🙂
P=UI if I recal corectly?
P=50W
I=U/R -> U=IR
P=I^2R
I=sqrt(P/R) = sqrt(50/5)=sqrt(10)=3.15A
Am I doing this correctly?
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I remembered reading something about the jx92s a while back. I thought it was supposed to be a little soft on top and rolling off somewhat at higher frequencies, especially when you look at the diagrams. On axis the curve measures straight but off axis it falls off at higher frequencies.
Anywho... I can always change if i does become "bright".
I'm happy that 16AWG seams sufficient. 🙂
P=UI if I recal corectly?
P=50W
I=U/R -> U=IR
P=I^2R
I=sqrt(P/R) = sqrt(50/5)=sqrt(10)=3.15A
Am I doing this correctly?
Bright as in elevated HF might not be the right phrase. I know i did send my JX92 packing because of something in the top end that i found particularily not to my liking. Anything that exacerbates that characteristic is probably not a good idea.
dave
dave
and those Jordans found a perfectly good home 🙂
maybe it's the internal (or rather "external") wire we used on the OB. Using the tube amps tamed the top end. Using a HT piece aggravates the top end a bit...but not to the point of being completely offensive. Anyways, it's only home theater and my ears are shot... 🙁
I never get too concerned with power ratings. Most folks will turn the volume down way before approaching the continuous rating...unless they are asking way too much of a small driver in a large room. Limiting the frequencies being fed to the Jordans allows them to take a lot more power without break up, just use a sub or two to fill in from about 300Hz down.
Too little power usually results in folks cranking the volume up, resulting in amp clipping---which will burn the voice coil(s).
maybe it's the internal (or rather "external") wire we used on the OB. Using the tube amps tamed the top end. Using a HT piece aggravates the top end a bit...but not to the point of being completely offensive. Anyways, it's only home theater and my ears are shot... 🙁
I never get too concerned with power ratings. Most folks will turn the volume down way before approaching the continuous rating...unless they are asking way too much of a small driver in a large room. Limiting the frequencies being fed to the Jordans allows them to take a lot more power without break up, just use a sub or two to fill in from about 300Hz down.
Too little power usually results in folks cranking the volume up, resulting in amp clipping---which will burn the voice coil(s).
Scottmoose>I finally managed to read the article you linked. It was one of the most well written articles on audio cables I've come across Imho. It does make you stop and think.
Nelson Pass has writen one as well and the conclusion is very similar if I recall things correctly.
The Harman co. wrote a piece on psychoacoustics as well I think. The visual impact WILL influence your choice no matter what you think.
The #1 concearn is wiregauge. #16AWG is ok and that is what matters.
According to the articles it's doubtful one will hear the difference in cables especially short ones. So Silver or Copper shouldn't make any difference.
Ok, I can live with that. I'm usually a pratical kind of person and don't subscribe much to the snake oil industry.
However there is one important factor we must not forget.
#1 Cooless. 😎
Silver wiring is cool and exotic. It makes for great conversation and looks good if you show it off. Plus knowing you got the best stuff will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling even if you can't tell the difference in sound.
(You probaby will tell a difference by just knowing it's there...)
#2 Tinkering is fun and making your own exotic cables is fun. If for no other reason than comparisson to cheaper versions. Just for the fun of it. 😀
But I'm going way OT here.
The important thing is that you guys think I'll be ok with 16AWG wiring in the speaker.
Nelson Pass has writen one as well and the conclusion is very similar if I recall things correctly.
The Harman co. wrote a piece on psychoacoustics as well I think. The visual impact WILL influence your choice no matter what you think.
The #1 concearn is wiregauge. #16AWG is ok and that is what matters.
According to the articles it's doubtful one will hear the difference in cables especially short ones. So Silver or Copper shouldn't make any difference.
Ok, I can live with that. I'm usually a pratical kind of person and don't subscribe much to the snake oil industry.
However there is one important factor we must not forget.
#1 Cooless. 😎
Silver wiring is cool and exotic. It makes for great conversation and looks good if you show it off. Plus knowing you got the best stuff will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling even if you can't tell the difference in sound.
(You probaby will tell a difference by just knowing it's there...)
#2 Tinkering is fun and making your own exotic cables is fun. If for no other reason than comparisson to cheaper versions. Just for the fun of it. 😀
But I'm going way OT here.
The important thing is that you guys think I'll be ok with 16AWG wiring in the speaker.
It should be good -Roger Russell was Director of Acoustic Design / Research for McKintosh for about 2 decades. Nice chap too. Resistance is the major concern; that said, wire inductance & capacitance can & do have some effect; if the former is high, the HF is likely to roll off, while if the latter is high, you might get some HF lift through overshoot. You'll be doing (very 😉 ) well to hear any differences over short internal runs though.
The JX92S is best listened to off-axis IMO; on axis it does have some peaking, about +6dB at 12KHz, give or take, & is ~4dB up at around 15KHz, per the published graph. It's not alone in that; most wide-band drivers have some HF lift through the 8KHz - 15KHz region, which is why I would personally avoid using any wire known for potentially lively HF (usually caused by high capacitance) with them. YMMV as ever of course.
The JX92S is best listened to off-axis IMO; on axis it does have some peaking, about +6dB at 12KHz, give or take, & is ~4dB up at around 15KHz, per the published graph. It's not alone in that; most wide-band drivers have some HF lift through the 8KHz - 15KHz region, which is why I would personally avoid using any wire known for potentially lively HF (usually caused by high capacitance) with them. YMMV as ever of course.
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Really? I can roll off my highs a bit if I use fat wire? That could be useful because my current system is a tad bright. That would be cheaper than buying tube gear.
Me thinks that you might be a bit off here, the inductance of a straight piece of wire is well, a simple formula and not likely to compromise HF response... The capacitance of which you speak will never boost HF, because it is in parallel with the driver and therefore would kill the HF performance, tho that rarely happens. The amplifier you drive the speakers with has a much bigger impact than most wire. Silver, as somone else mentioned in error will not affect the HF performance.
A copy of Nelson's paper can be found here: http://documents.jordan-usa.com/Famous-Articles/Speaker-Cables-Science-or-Snake-Oil-Nelson-Pass.pdf
Just a dusting of fact from an EE.
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I rearranged Scott's sentence so that you can see he is saying the same thing...
dave
rjbond3rd: jordans in the "Spirits"?
yup.limited the bottom end of the Jordie's to 300Hz. 250 watt plate amp and 10" sub per channel 🙂 . Of course they were built for someone else...I don't have the room
May have to build a "compact Spirit" 🙂
yup.limited the bottom end of the Jordie's to 300Hz. 250 watt plate amp and 10" sub per channel 🙂 . Of course they were built for someone else...I don't have the room
May have to build a "compact Spirit" 🙂
Cheers Dave. 🙂
That's one way of doing it, as inductance is usually somewhat higher than an equivalent in a smaller gauge (although as ever, depends on exactly how you use it, and your amplifier, per Augspuger, Pass & Toole). Easier & cheaper is simply to unzip a piece of zip cord & space the conductors out. Job done. I do it myself with a pair of FF85Ks on the end of an SS amp that wouldn't normally be an ideal match. High inductance wire forming a mild low-pass filter is not exactly news, although for consistancy, it's worth trying to keep the conductors a uniform distance apart rather than draped about randomly.
On the subject of capacitance: Cross Coax Cables Design vs Zip Cord — Reviews and News from Audioholics -'On a less serious note, some people may prefer the excessive frequency peaking due to overshoot that high capacitance speaker cables may cause, assuming rampant oscillations are not present, as the listener may possibly perceive it as sounding "brighter".'
Many people believe that silver somehow sounds 'brighter' than copper. Personally, I don't buy into the idea, hence my rather sardonic 'at the risk of lending credance to quackery' remark. Purely from my perspective, wire does not have a sound of its own; being a passive component its LCR specs. can merely affect the behaviour of the components it ties together, to a greater or lesser extent. Unless you go to real extremes, any audible changes are usually subtle, far less than (especially) changing speakers or amplifier. Others disagree; fair enough I say. Life is too short to worry about such things.
That's one way of doing it, as inductance is usually somewhat higher than an equivalent in a smaller gauge (although as ever, depends on exactly how you use it, and your amplifier, per Augspuger, Pass & Toole). Easier & cheaper is simply to unzip a piece of zip cord & space the conductors out. Job done. I do it myself with a pair of FF85Ks on the end of an SS amp that wouldn't normally be an ideal match. High inductance wire forming a mild low-pass filter is not exactly news, although for consistancy, it's worth trying to keep the conductors a uniform distance apart rather than draped about randomly.
On the subject of capacitance: Cross Coax Cables Design vs Zip Cord — Reviews and News from Audioholics -'On a less serious note, some people may prefer the excessive frequency peaking due to overshoot that high capacitance speaker cables may cause, assuming rampant oscillations are not present, as the listener may possibly perceive it as sounding "brighter".'
Many people believe that silver somehow sounds 'brighter' than copper. Personally, I don't buy into the idea, hence my rather sardonic 'at the risk of lending credance to quackery' remark. Purely from my perspective, wire does not have a sound of its own; being a passive component its LCR specs. can merely affect the behaviour of the components it ties together, to a greater or lesser extent. Unless you go to real extremes, any audible changes are usually subtle, far less than (especially) changing speakers or amplifier. Others disagree; fair enough I say. Life is too short to worry about such things.
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My only worry about the cables really is the capacitance. Resistance and Inductance will be quite low but capacitance will probably be a little on the high side. Still, it shouldn't be so high as to cause any problems.
I'll be making a 4-braid with the wiring and as far as I've been able to find out braiding will lower Inductance but raise Capacitance.
I'll be making a 4-braid with the wiring and as far as I've been able to find out braiding will lower Inductance but raise Capacitance.
Correct. Over an internal run, it's not going to make any audible difference. I wouldn't make a habit of it for lengthy runs of external speaker wire though.
I've got the power amps next to the speakers so I'm guessing a foot or so of regular speaker wire.
Just to second Scott's comment about listening off-axis. They're designed to be toed in to cross well in front of the listening position. Otherwise they sound too bright. The correct BSC can work wonders to balance them out, depending on cabinet design. A wide front cabinet (like the VTL) does interesting things, too.
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