Diver beak-in in essence is no different from running in a brand new car engine -the principle is exactly the same. You don't flock the bollocks off a brand new piece of precision machinery. In the case of a driver, the extent of the effects vary with the specifics of its design and it will be more significant for some than others. You're essentially bringing the suspension & other moving parts into the design tolerance / operating window. Glues etc. may initially be slightly stiff for example. Manufacturers are not in a position to do this for the end user unless they are very low-volume / high margin producers since they lack the physical space and time. Since it's not arduous or difficult, that is something for the end user -like the aforementioned car / car engine. Plenty of examples to find of before / after where you'll see Q, F0, Vas drop etc. Manufacturers will not typically provide development testing data to the public however; it is not in their interest to do so, any more than it would be for companies in other industries to provide equivalents.
Sorry, but how old are you?
If you're able to let them break-in every day, say 3-4 hours, then in a month you are through. And they are worth it, in my ears. But they get still better the next hundreds of hours.
Some things just need time.
The Eikonas require a few minutes break-in when new. If it took hundreds of hours, parameters would be guess work. Modern materials and glues - and given the lightweight nature of the parts used - shouldn't require loosening up to that extent and they should perform well right out of the box.
Break-in is often more of a case of the listeners' ears getting acclimatised. A company here in the UK even offers a break-in service for cables.
I can only speak for the Jordan units. Other makes may be different. But it a driver requires breaking in, how long can you let it rest before you have to start the break-in period all over again?
Even modern cars don't need a running-in period when new nowadays.
Break-in is often more of a case of the listeners' ears getting acclimatised. A company here in the UK even offers a break-in service for cables.
I can only speak for the Jordan units. Other makes may be different. But it a driver requires breaking in, how long can you let it rest before you have to start the break-in period all over again?
Even modern cars don't need a running-in period when new nowadays.
Not so. It depends on the design characteristics and the nature of the components employed. Your Jordan drivers may not require this, but what applies in one case does not automatically carry over to others. Nor, assuming you know the components used in manufacturing, the tolerances of these, and engage in long-term testing, would parameters be a matter of guesswork. That would be like claiming a manufacturer has no idea what the power output and behaviour of a motor it produces will be before and after a short run-in phase.
Now that often is true.
Generally speaking, you wouldn't need to since its often loosening up glues etc. in those units that take a little longer, and once that's done, it's pretty much done. Possibly in some cases (depends on the design), but a unit would need to be static for extended periods for anything to dry up etc., in which case (assuming no physical damage from rotted foam over decades etc.) it will likely be a matter of seconds.
So they claim, but only a berk would hammer one fresh out of the factory. A degree of mechanical sympathy rather than coming it Captain Caveman is rarely a bad thing.
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A good driver should not change parameters after many years use, let alone after the first few hours.
Minutes, yes, to temperature acclimatise to the type of music and to give the listener a chance to adapt to the different or strange sound.
Yes the driver will (or should) return to box condition after it has cooled down, unless something wrong or it's a monster woofer that has dissipated alot of heat in the rubber and this has denatured somewhat.
This is what is commonly referred to as 'break-in'.
Minutes, yes, to temperature acclimatise to the type of music and to give the listener a chance to adapt to the different or strange sound.
Yes the driver will (or should) return to box condition after it has cooled down, unless something wrong or it's a monster woofer that has dissipated alot of heat in the rubber and this has denatured somewhat.
This is what is commonly referred to as 'break-in'.
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Not correct, the materials of new drivers need to loosen, vas Q and fs will be changed after hours of cone workout
here's a nice breakin followup with measurements.
Like I say these break-in effects are due to heat build up with woofers and are not applicable to full-range drivers, particularly when you have factored in the effect of the box - the idea that you can hear a permanenet change is just ridiculous and I just don't suck it sorry. Feel free to run your in for a week however if it makes you feel any better!
The article says: The greatest amount of change in the sound of a speaker can be from the electrical burn in. A majority of this is from capacitors, but some of the electrical burn in has to do with the wire, and voice coils of the drivers. Sounds a bit like the cable burn-in myth to me.
Yes there will be some compliance changes, but very small and not significant (or it is a very poor design). Certainly not something to worry about. I would be more concerned about temperature - for instance if stored in a cold place then used at volume.
The article says: The greatest amount of change in the sound of a speaker can be from the electrical burn in. A majority of this is from capacitors, but some of the electrical burn in has to do with the wire, and voice coils of the drivers. Sounds a bit like the cable burn-in myth to me.
Yes there will be some compliance changes, but very small and not significant (or it is a very poor design). Certainly not something to worry about. I would be more concerned about temperature - for instance if stored in a cold place then used at volume.
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Frankly, that's nonsense. All drivers without exception will eventually change in behaviour, whether from wear & tear through extended heavy use on their moving mechanical components, glues etc. finally cracking excessively, or due to external factors such as UV effects on foam surrounds. Rather well known factors and, in fact, basic mechanical engineering. You appear to be representing yourself as possessing knowledge greater than the rest of us mere mortals (some of whom may actually know something about driver design), but to casually ignore such matters does not do your case any favours.
So you possess deep knowledge of all drive units in past and current production, including having access to the spec. of their components and long-term destruction tests? Remarkable.
Humour aside (couldn't resist), all drive units are different. Different designs and types often need to be handled differently, and what may be applicable in some cases is not automatically universally so. Personally, I tend to give greater credence to the advice of the manufacturer or the designer of a drive unit when it comes to such matters than 3rd parties who do not, in fact, possess any knowledge at all of the component specifications, testing results or even the basic material grades employed. They may actually know something about their own products and how best to treat them / ensure optimal performance. Do you know (as in know, not 'guess') what spec. glues are used and the exact quantities of these in various locations on for e.g., a Fostex FF125wk? Do you know the grades of materials, the tolerances of these, and the long-term test results of an Alpair 12P? I doubt it. Neither do I for that matter, nor, I suspect, does anyone else here.
There is much snake oil in audio. Far too much. However, we should not get over-carried away: there are practical engineering realities that exist, and some drivers can and do change in behaviour over a relatively short period; data which can be and frequently is measured exhibiting permanent changes from factory fresh. Fostex were historically notorious for this: in mechanical terms, you would almost literally 'break them' in terms of their deviating from new-in-box condition. Given their typology, with fairly short-travel suspension, stiff cones, highish sensitivity / Vas, that usually meant hitting them with some suitably LF heavy material for a few hours. This was expected by their designer
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Sorry, but how old are you?
If you're able to let them break-in every day, say 3-4 hours, then in a month you are through. And they are worth it, in my ears. But they get still better the next hundreds of hours.
Some things just need time.
Old enough to recognize market hype versus science. Your ears are just getting used to it.
Why is it that after break in the claims are they always sound "better"? If it's because parameters are changing (and affecting sound) during break in why wouldn't they also potentially sound worse in many cases (based on enclosure design, etc..)?
You do sometimes, though not often.
For the rest, there won't be any single reason. No doubt in some cases, it is simply people getting used to it. But not in all. To give one example, because the data provided in the first place may have been derived from drivers post, rather than prior to, whatever break-in may be relevant, since this is them in their intended state. In other cases, a shift in Q may result in a sound that some prefer, such as introducing a peak in a response somewhere. YMMV on that latter one. Don't forget that companies like Fostex, for e.g., and the majority of their users (Japan is their primary market) don't pay much attention to data sheet numbers anyway; their approach toward speak / system design in general is rather more organic than that commonly employed in the West.
For the rest, there won't be any single reason. No doubt in some cases, it is simply people getting used to it. But not in all. To give one example, because the data provided in the first place may have been derived from drivers post, rather than prior to, whatever break-in may be relevant, since this is them in their intended state. In other cases, a shift in Q may result in a sound that some prefer, such as introducing a peak in a response somewhere. YMMV on that latter one. Don't forget that companies like Fostex, for e.g., and the majority of their users (Japan is their primary market) don't pay much attention to data sheet numbers anyway; their approach toward speak / system design in general is rather more organic than that commonly employed in the West.
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It is indeed market hype.
If I was designing a driver I would stick to the principle that parameters should not change significantly from new (Of course you can design one that does). If they do then it is poor design. For instance there should be sufficient collar that the flexure is a small percentage of the maximum so you are not stressing the material - does not take a genius to see this.
If I was designing a driver I would stick to the principle that parameters should not change significantly from new (Of course you can design one that does). If they do then it is poor design. For instance there should be sufficient collar that the flexure is a small percentage of the maximum so you are not stressing the material - does not take a genius to see this.
That may be so in terms of what you might (or might not) do. But, with no offense intended, it will not be universally acknowledged that your design choices, preferences and opinions regarding these are to be simply accepted over those of other, equally or possibly even more talented and experienced designers of wideband loudspeaker drive units.
No offence taken. In a nutshell: If you run at 'maximum' volume you are runnng at the limit of tolerance by definiton so yes you may degrade performance due to material changes. If you then decide to run at an extended period for an even higher volume you run the risk of degrading it even more. This is not desirable behaviour, however, on the part of designer or user. Make up your own mind I really don't care what one decides.
Given an appropriate driver, one only needs to listen to a fresh out of the box driver vrs a well broken in one that that comment is far from universal.
dave
right, ears also getting used to the sound of loudspeakers.
But usually i listen to different loudspeakers on a day, in my car, at work, at home (living room, home office, bedroom, kitchen, toilet - no - kidding
) and then you will hear a nasal sound of singers or harsh highs or missing bass.If a enclosure is done right, they are developed with broken-in drivers, otherwise you could be right.
I know from my own experience with markaudio alpair 10's that the break in period is real. I build a speaker with 10M gen 3 for myself and after a month use they did change (no harshness in the high's anymore). Then i build the same set for someone else with the same type driver, and i hear the difference. I'm now burning them in for this guy (a rich guy who is to lazy to do it himself and pays me for building and buring in it) and they do change and get closer to the sound of my set (wich are now used for a bit over 2 months). The box is identical, and i use the same amp (Marantz PM5004) and source (an technics SL-D202 turntable or an lenovo laptop with vlc for digital) for it.
But that's just a personal subjective experience i guess
But that's just a personal subjective experience i guess
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