jacco vermeulen said:
Thanks for the info on metal. I am getting onto ebay right now as there seem to be bargains. I want this for heatsink joints and strong brackets for my power amp that has 2 1000VA torroids in it.
You have more money than me
Alan, you don't know what you are talking about. The cases cost US more than $3000 to have made. The pots, switches and wire, more than $750. Etc.
The retail price of this unit in Japan is almost 5 million yen.
The retail price of this unit in Japan is almost 5 million yen.
john curl said:
JC, I know what I am talking about, but I freely admit I have not a clue what you are talkng about. John Linsley Hood was miles ahead in explaining his designs and not passing off BS as worthy science. Bailey, Blomley, Nelson Jones, Walker, Self and others (sorry to those I haven't mentioned) seem to be good at this stuff (explaining), shame you seem to rely on faith and "the force" for people to like your amps.
That you charge what you do and don't publish the schematic with value tells us a lot. And leaves us to think up all sorts of other reasons why you don't.
We tried aluminum welding at first. Jack Bybee now owns the first prototype of the Blowtorch that was made that way. We decided that just one mistake would ruin the appearance of the box, and we could not take that chance with our customers. The cost of aluminum has dropped significantly due to the recession. We don't make Blowtorches anymore, and we never will again, as they are too expensive and time consuming to produce. It is just not worth it. We decided that, years ago.
If anyone wants something comparable to the Blowtorch, made by the same design team, then look into the JC-2. The mail order price is CHEAP, almost wholesale.
MikeBettinger said:
Hi Mike - thanks for the advice. Most of my post might have been intended to tread on all of one camps toes.
I am in one camp myself as my other posts might have given away earlier...I know they are all smarter than me. I can't tell whether they are more intelligent, but I know many of them don't get sarcasm full stop. 🙄
Well Alan, at least you know who to rely upon when you want audio design information. You can certainly leave me out of the equation.
alansawyer said:
I did.
Can't comment on the sound, but from an engineering perspective there's nothing to call home about, it's typical for a JC design in that period (complementary low noise JFETs, MOSFETs, servos, etc...). The only big unknown are the active devices types, but knowing it's a JC design pretty much answers the questions about.
After this reverse engineering exercise, I concluded that the BT reputation is a combination of very good performance with a legend and/or urban myth. To me, the BT is way, way overpriced and overestimated. But then there are people willing to pay $10,000 on a bottle of wine so why not 😀
In a sense, the BT is the root of all evils 😀. In a need to reconcile the subjective perception with the lack of technology information/explanations, the BT became one of the foundation myths of the GEB cult. Certainly the schematics wouldn't let anybody guess the outstanding reputation and then, unfortunately, the focus shifted on the well known audio pet peeves (silver wiring, air isolation, aluminum case, etc...) rather than including some psychoacoustics elements in the evaluations.
Don't ask, I won't disclose the schematics or any other kind of further information/measurements, JC at least deserves this myth to survive. Though, this guy did a pretty good job (although not perfect) http://www.moxtone.com/Uskok.htm Needless to say, I am in no way associated with the author, his website or his business (if any).
Sarcasm only works in open communication if it is clear (in the same moment) that you mean no ill will.
In this case, Alan, it appears that you mean ill will. The message coming across is akin to not understanding or knowing the totality of what you see, at the the same time you heap derision on it.
This is common in many situations but is quite prevalent among trained engineers. It can be and is many (most) times tied to the idea of only accepting the 'new' in a predetermined framework that fits the known knowledge base..which the very definition of new, itself, makes a mockery of. A critical point that few get..it does not fit that framework, you see?
Thus you are properly ignored.
In this case, Alan, it appears that you mean ill will. The message coming across is akin to not understanding or knowing the totality of what you see, at the the same time you heap derision on it.
This is common in many situations but is quite prevalent among trained engineers. It can be and is many (most) times tied to the idea of only accepting the 'new' in a predetermined framework that fits the known knowledge base..which the very definition of new, itself, makes a mockery of. A critical point that few get..it does not fit that framework, you see?
Thus you are properly ignored.
alansawyer said:
alansawyer said:
alansawyer said:
alansawyer said:
So, you scorn John Curl's ideas, you only want to reverse engineer the Blowtorch, against JC's explicit wish.
Good for you, only, I doubt whether this thread is the place for what you intend doing.
It's not about a man, it's not about hero worship, it's not about a particular preamp, circuit, or chassis.
It's about methodology and the mental state that a decent and properly working one-- derives from.
It's about methodology and the mental state that a decent and properly working one-- derives from.
Not a bad analogy. Let's take the example of a DRC La Tache. It is indeed as good as the best red wines in the world, but no better than an excellent $100 bottle. But it's La Tache. There's limited quantities, a legendary name, a luxury good, so the price is high because of supply and demand.
Now, the analogy breaks down when looking at cost of goods versus sales price- in the case of the BT, it's probably 4:1 (order of magnitude), in the case of La Tache, it's more like 200:1.
syn08 said:
Well done 😎
I won't ask. I don't expect copyright or other laws to be broken and my question was more to gain what you have told me, since reading a board to visualise a circuit is not illegal, you have done a great job - thank you.
For me I use a Quad 44 modded with OPA134's and it sounds no different to a 10k pot stuck between CD and main amp. For me that is good enough so why spend more. My own attempts have sounded just as good but were all mechanically unreliable due to my lack of skill with metalwork.
The referenced site makes for an interesting read (the English parts and the schematics)
Joshua_G said:
Joshua, you haven't a clue what I intend doing. I certainly have no interest in ths blowtorch other than to understand how it works. If you think I want to make one (or many) then you are plain wrong.
The thread is in a DIY Audio forum so asking for schematics doesn't seem to much the wrong place to do so.
john curl said:Look at Moxtone, and you wonder why I don't publish complete schematics?
If you hadn't written this I honestly would not have known they were similar. Given that, they are interesting and make for an intellectual increase for me. Thank you.
About cases.
If it must be aluminium case, why not cast alu case? After casting you make fine finish work.
Did anyone try to make ceramic cases from some strong type of technical ceramic?
About Blowtorch, there is saying "Behind every good horse a lots of dust can be seen".
I did not seen schematic or hear a working specimen of Blowtorch so I don´t want to make any further comment of design behind curtain.
I just have a feeling that is incommon design away form lin topolgy.
If it must be aluminium case, why not cast alu case? After casting you make fine finish work.
Did anyone try to make ceramic cases from some strong type of technical ceramic?
About Blowtorch, there is saying "Behind every good horse a lots of dust can be seen".
I did not seen schematic or hear a working specimen of Blowtorch so I don´t want to make any further comment of design behind curtain.
I just have a feeling that is incommon design away form lin topolgy.
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