I have heard people discussing how many of us can dance menuett on a needle pin, but do we exist? 
regards
regards
Wavebourn said:
Probably not. But you can measure short line fault response, or transient recovery voltage.
PMA said:
Why?
If I want to measure subtle artifacts of opamps I can connect 10'th of them in series, but why I can't take more wire?
I participated in development of equipment to test quality of dipping of electric motor stators applying high DC current in order to calculate thermal resistance by it's electrical resistance change. Something similar can be used here.
myhrrhleine said:
Ever heard of a thing named "superposition theorem"? If not, Wikipedia is at your rescue.
Directionality in a linear medium (that is, where the Lorentz reciprocity theorem applies, that is, assuming ohmic materials) would violate the superposition theorem, which in turn means a violation of the energy conservation theorem. Our whole macroscopic Univers as we know it would be upside down.
What? Are you still here? 😀 😀 😀
syn08 said:
No, he gone to measure how diameters of a speaker cable on opposite ends change with a music flow.
I think that we should keep to trying to measure the low level transfer function of wire, rather than laugh about it.
Has anyone ever heard of 'residual resistance'? Do you know what makes it? How is it normally fixed, so that it is minimized? Is it really resistance, or is it diode like, or maybe more like a mini spark gap? Every question I have asked is real, and can be documented.
Has anyone ever heard of 'residual resistance'? Do you know what makes it? How is it normally fixed, so that it is minimized? Is it really resistance, or is it diode like, or maybe more like a mini spark gap? Every question I have asked is real, and can be documented.
metallic conduction
So, since you apparently don't accept the band theory of metallic conduction, what would be an alternative for passage of AC through wires? Or are you talking about grain boundary effects. impurity degradation of conductivity? Any concrete perceptions on the mechanism for the "difference" in sound between metals, other than obvious easily characterized std. issues (wire size, resistivity, etc.)or is this idle speculation?
Or are the electrons impressed by the different color of copper, silver, gold, etc? Maybe a new theory could evolve here...
john curl said:
So, since you apparently don't accept the band theory of metallic conduction, what would be an alternative for passage of AC through wires? Or are you talking about grain boundary effects. impurity degradation of conductivity? Any concrete perceptions on the mechanism for the "difference" in sound between metals, other than obvious easily characterized std. issues (wire size, resistivity, etc.)or is this idle speculation?
Or are the electrons impressed by the different color of copper, silver, gold, etc? Maybe a new theory could evolve here...
Re: metallic conduction
I heard of a Japanese experiment with water structure change depending on human emotions exposed on it. I saw pictures, but have no equipment to test for myself...
auplater said:
I heard of a Japanese experiment with water structure change depending on human emotions exposed on it. I saw pictures, but have no equipment to test for myself...
john curl said:
So, it's back to the "wire diode" theory. John, I suspect you already know this: 100 years of theoretical and experimental research in physics was unable to provide a shred of evidence of such a phenomena in metals. If you can proof such, the Nobel prize is in your hands.
And don't come up again with the Cu-CuO rectifying contact. I've already addressed this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1540475&highlight=#post1540475
And here (about oxygen in copper):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1583559&highlight=#post1583559
Auplater, I wish that I could resolve it as well.
First, I have been shown differences in wire in audio equpment that I both design and own.
I don't want to believe it either, but it is there, nevertheless. Now WHY?
Is it because of the material purity, annealed state, insulator, geometry, what?
Of course, many here will say that there is no difference, that I am either imagining things or trying to put something over on someone, somewhere.
Interestingly enough, this same sort of debate happened 200 years ago. Yes, America's own Thomas Jefferson said: "I could more easily believe two Yankee professors would lie than stones would fall from heaven" 1807
Welcome to two hundred years ago.
First, I have been shown differences in wire in audio equpment that I both design and own.
I don't want to believe it either, but it is there, nevertheless. Now WHY?
Is it because of the material purity, annealed state, insulator, geometry, what?
Of course, many here will say that there is no difference, that I am either imagining things or trying to put something over on someone, somewhere.
Interestingly enough, this same sort of debate happened 200 years ago. Yes, America's own Thomas Jefferson said: "I could more easily believe two Yankee professors would lie than stones would fall from heaven" 1807
Welcome to two hundred years ago.
What Jefferson actually said:
http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/december2007.html
A bit more nuanced than the urban legend.
http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/december2007.html
A bit more nuanced than the urban legend.
Re: Re: cable directionality
It remembers me my experiences with absolute phase when the debate about it was raging. The first time I reversed the wires at the speaker terminals, there was a huge improvement. Reverting to normal gave a further improvement, but not as great. Reverting again, still an improvement, but quite slight. At the fifth change, there was no improvement at all : the sound was as as good in normal or in reversed connections.
R-K Rønningstad said:
It remembers me my experiences with absolute phase when the debate about it was raging. The first time I reversed the wires at the speaker terminals, there was a huge improvement. Reverting to normal gave a further improvement, but not as great. Reverting again, still an improvement, but quite slight. At the fifth change, there was no improvement at all : the sound was as as good in normal or in reversed connections.
Reading all this has got me thinking. Fashions come and go, then they come back.
30yrs or so ago a certain Jimmy Hughes writing for a UK mag HiFi Answers got into cables big time. He went from materials to geometry and finally ended up with diameter. Solid core was the best sounding cable, any stranding degraded the sound, but the final outcome was, "the thinner the better".
So I like others followed his advice and found that he was correct, We all used our ears to confirm this. Later Jimmy got into speakers and found out that speakers sounded better with the stuffing removed, people followed his advice and heard the more 'lively' sound.
We all know that sharp eared individuals can hear things that others don't. We also know that we can imagine differences that are not real. So far we have been measuring the equipment to indentify what is causing these differences, and we have exhausted the possibilities with the gear we have and the theories we can come up with.
I think that audio research should now examine the ear / brain part of the HiFi chain. We now have technologies that can examine the brain whilst it is engaged with real world tasks like listening to cables for example. We might learn something here. I think we all want answers.
Imagine the pride a sharp eared person would have in a framed MRI scan which showed his brain easily responding to the difference between a solid core cable and a stranded one with the same diameter.
30yrs or so ago a certain Jimmy Hughes writing for a UK mag HiFi Answers got into cables big time. He went from materials to geometry and finally ended up with diameter. Solid core was the best sounding cable, any stranding degraded the sound, but the final outcome was, "the thinner the better".
So I like others followed his advice and found that he was correct, We all used our ears to confirm this. Later Jimmy got into speakers and found out that speakers sounded better with the stuffing removed, people followed his advice and heard the more 'lively' sound.
We all know that sharp eared individuals can hear things that others don't. We also know that we can imagine differences that are not real. So far we have been measuring the equipment to indentify what is causing these differences, and we have exhausted the possibilities with the gear we have and the theories we can come up with.
I think that audio research should now examine the ear / brain part of the HiFi chain. We now have technologies that can examine the brain whilst it is engaged with real world tasks like listening to cables for example. We might learn something here. I think we all want answers.
Imagine the pride a sharp eared person would have in a framed MRI scan which showed his brain easily responding to the difference between a solid core cable and a stranded one with the same diameter.
Sharp ears say that less damping factor in case of thickness of wires is more preferable than non-linear output impedance of a device that drives speakers. You loose a damping factor, but gain more linear and stable driving impedance.
Nice to know that Thomas Jefferson was more polite in his evaluation. Sounds like SY on this thread. 
Wavebourn said:
You may be right on that but Jimmy didn't just confine himself to just speaker cables, interconnects and internal wiring all showed the same effect.
<quote some deep Shakespeare>
Anyhow, what about those component leads?
Lessee:
copper
tinned copper
silver plated copper
gold plated copper
cadnium plated?
rhodium?
and the above with steel, brass, etc??
solid silver, gold, etc...
-----
Jan,
I know that there is extensive research on hearing, I was referring in specific to these alleged audible differences in materials WRT hi-fi applications...
-----
WRT these alleged audible differences in materials employed in hi-fi equipment, they (should they exist) are much more difficult to discern (if they can be) when at least the distortions of the speaker system (especially the HF portion) are not very low... but that is merely my opinion, fwiw.
_-_-bear
PS. glad someone mentioned that pesky "screen" wire in "directional cables"...
PPS. I know less than I did when I was 18yo.... 😉
Anyhow, what about those component leads?
Lessee:
copper
tinned copper
silver plated copper
gold plated copper
cadnium plated?
rhodium?
and the above with steel, brass, etc??
solid silver, gold, etc...
-----
Jan,
I know that there is extensive research on hearing, I was referring in specific to these alleged audible differences in materials WRT hi-fi applications...
-----
WRT these alleged audible differences in materials employed in hi-fi equipment, they (should they exist) are much more difficult to discern (if they can be) when at least the distortions of the speaker system (especially the HF portion) are not very low... but that is merely my opinion, fwiw.
_-_-bear
PS. glad someone mentioned that pesky "screen" wire in "directional cables"...
PPS. I know less than I did when I was 18yo.... 😉
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