scott wurcer said:
Nothing personal Scott, I'm only grabbing your post as a point to reply to. I'm sure by now that you understand I pass no ill will in your direction.
~~~~~
The evidence of directionality in cables is anecdotal and incidental-but numbers in the millions of individual instances of 'noticing the effect', or consideration.
This goes well beyond the idea of bad design.
Real science lies in noting the observation, and attempting to find the source of the issue. Which will invariably be both more complex and layered in the work and time aspect of the investigation, but the solution or truth will be simple-once the whole thing is understood.
I am now at the point in cable design considerations where I can control that aspect in totality-but it took nearly 20 years of investigation to get there.
I can tell you such a thing, but will not explain it, as that involves dispensing the knowledge that puts food on my table.
This may come as a point of difficulty for some in this thread (as a consideration) but if they understand that they are in this thread to attempt to understand what separates the wheat from the chaff in design...one great point to live and exist within the context of, is:
The willingness to consider in totality and depth. To investigate until a given thing becomes clear..with the inherent understanding that some long held facts or ideas on realities in science and/or electrical considerations-will need to change.
Ridicule offers no solution. It only offers solution to the psychologically weak and the immature. The temptation to do such things (ridicule or outright rejection-or both) on any given subject lies waiting within any of us..but only the weakness within us responds in that fashion.
Hypnotic suggestion is very powerful and significant thing in human's life. When I met my wife, she could not sleep without pills, so I had to predict when and how she will go asleep easily, what she will feel, and how she will wake up the next morning. You know, she broke in as predicted. The main point is, predicting break-in you have to be absolutely congruent, and must use sensory significant information.
I have one record that break in everything instantly, from players to speakers, smoothly through cables, so everyone feels the joy as soon as it finishes playing, after that you will see, feel, and hear the difference. If you want I can post it.
I have one record that break in everything instantly, from players to speakers, smoothly through cables, so everyone feels the joy as soon as it finishes playing, after that you will see, feel, and hear the difference. If you want I can post it.
KBK said:
How?
We all hypnotize each other telling about our beliefs. I had the belief that she could sleep well without pills, and honestly told that.
Careful, KBK. I might appreciate your input, but many here do not understand such things, and attribute to something else. They also get 'crazy' and cause moderators to get nervous.
Just like I have taken health food vitamins for the last 35 years, and I am still here, even after a lot of hard partying, more than most. I attribute it partially to the vitamins. My doctor may think that I am just lucky.
Just like I have taken health food vitamins for the last 35 years, and I am still here, even after a lot of hard partying, more than most. I attribute it partially to the vitamins. My doctor may think that I am just lucky.
Anatoly, CD did not exist in 1978 when I first examined the silver cable. Please take care in your input to these ideas, at least on this thread.
Bas, you are correct about silver plated, multistranded teflon wire. It is usually disappointing. I think this is because they 'plate' the silver over the copper with some sort of dipping process and it is full of impurities.
john curl said:
Sorry John; I never heard differences in sounds of cables when their electrical properties are equal. That's why I found the explanation for myself that it is a power of suggestions, like majority of people believe if some dress come from Paris it is elegant, but when it come from say Greenfield it is weird. Probably I am wrong, as I am wrong very frequently in my beliefs, but now I don't believe in break-in of electrical properties of cables due to proper signal transferring.
Edit: speaking of vitamins.... I had a belief that alcohol helps against migraines so every time migraine approached I got drunk. It was hard to re-examine that belief, but as soon as I did I don't use alcohol, I don't believe in it's value, and have a proof that it did not help, but made things worse. Now I am taking horse doses of B2 (400 miligram /day) and have no migraines (almost), but when do they are not so strong as before.
funny
believe it or not
the worst thing what could happen with burned in cables is that i can hear no difference compared to non burned in cables
second is that i really can not hear a difference between burned in or not burned in cables on my wake-up radio system, it sounds ugly any way , thats perfect for a wake-up system
last but not least, those people who can not hear the difference betweeen burned in /not burned in cables are maybe in need of music reproduction gear like the ctc blowtorch which makes it audible.
😀
believe it or not
the worst thing what could happen with burned in cables is that i can hear no difference compared to non burned in cables
second is that i really can not hear a difference between burned in or not burned in cables on my wake-up radio system, it sounds ugly any way , thats perfect for a wake-up system
last but not least, those people who can not hear the difference betweeen burned in /not burned in cables are maybe in need of music reproduction gear like the ctc blowtorch which makes it audible.
😀
PMA said:
Or the electrical environment they were put into was stable enough that the cables didn't become an auxilary tone control.
It can happen.
Unfortunately, Groove-T, you are right. If it had not been for my former business partner, Bob Crump, I would be almost in the dark about cables as many are. You have to live with them, to really hear the difference, and some cables are more sensitive to this extra effort than others.
With all this talk of cables and cable burn-in, one could be excused for thinking that this is the last detail to be addressed before perfection is finally reached.
impurities... or not
isn't ignorance bliss. if you don't know anything about a technology, dismiss it outright, eh?
ever hear of "electrowinning"? It's how metals (copper, silver, gold, that sort of thing) are purified and involves "plating" and "dipping" processes that are "full of impurities"
give us a break... do some reading
Re-read your sig..
"Condemnation without Examination is Prejudice"
john curl said:
isn't ignorance bliss. if you don't know anything about a technology, dismiss it outright, eh?
ever hear of "electrowinning"? It's how metals (copper, silver, gold, that sort of thing) are purified and involves "plating" and "dipping" processes that are "full of impurities"
give us a break... do some reading
Re-read your sig..
"Condemnation without Examination is Prejudice"
janneman said:
Jan,
My second hand understanding of Type E and EE (SPC/"teflon) wire is that the main problem with it was that the insulation when used in aircraft (I am told this was the original application) would abrade wherever it came in contact with a surface. This may be the main reason you find it "tightly strung up" in military equipment - but afaik, typical vintage military gear uses wire harness made using "lacing" and this has nothing to do with teflon insulation...
If the SPC stranded wire is breaking near the solder connection, that is possibly due to improper stripping of the insulation. If the wire is nicked in the process of cutting through the insulation, that can create a stress point where the wire might break. Also, if silver containing solder is not used, then there is some leaching of the silver plate, which also could serve to make that area more succeptable to breakage.
I've been using SPC wire for a long time, and have yet to find a breakage problem that is any different than the equivalent copper wire in the same application...
Afaik, the reason many DIYers "prefer" solid core silver wire is simply that they can get it! Bare solid silver wire is available from a number of sources, as it is used for jewelry. Stranded silver wire is a specialty item, and is rather expensive to have made to order (drawn, stranded and jacketed in teflon) - beyond the ability of a DIYer to contract a factory (if you can find one) to make it to order. I know about this, as I do just that myself. 😉
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Anatoliy,
I have done A/B tests with cables of identical construction except for the materials in the wire itself. I was not pleased to find/hear any differences, as it proved to be expensive ultimately.
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I have never ever found a copper wire that sounded the same as a silver wire. However I am fairly sure that this doesn't matter in most situations, and for most users. In isolated situations the use of a single silver wire simply will not be clearly discernable.
Why it should be discernable, ever, is quite confounding imho.
Someday, I hope it can be measured and quantified... it's not delusion or hypnosis. It's a royal PIA in some situations...
_-_-bear
PS. my opinions don't count
Wavebourn, we have been over this in detail for many years. You should talk to me about what we have found, (and not found) before guessing. It seems to involve the physics of materials and annealing, as much as anything else. It is difficult to measure, BUT I have directly compared Blowtorch preamps made with quality copper wire to Blowtorch preamps with quality silver wire. There is a sonic difference.
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