Grey,
You quoted me several times in your message, therefore here's my
.Your rethoric reminds me of a long debate led by Oliver Kamm on Noam Chomsky's political stances. To paraphrase: "My attitude to John Curl is similar to my attitude to many sports, teams or bands: that is to say, that he isn't nearly as 🤐 annoying as his disciples".
john curl said:
Why do you do this John? This started out as a perfectly reasonable and factual post, and then you have to go and make a fool of yourself again with that personal attack. How many more years do you need to live to learn these simple things?
Jan Didden
janneman said:
Hi Jan,
Z5U is incredibly nonlinear. Although we are legitimately talking about DA, we must also bear in mind other bad characteristics of some capacitors, such as voltage-dependent capacitance.
Cheers,
Bob
Even polyester/mylar is not good. Both non-linear capacitance and DA. Temperature dependent as well. I had to give up them for instrumentation purposes, and I am leaving them in audio as well.
janneman said:
I disagree, a frequency response change is not a distortion. But this was already beaten to death here and elsewhere.
It is much natural to consider the DiffMaker measured differences between caps as the result of some sort of nonlinear effect.
Bill Wazlo also feels it may be a voltage- or current dependent value change plus maybe some vibration-induced stuff.
Jan Didden
Jan Didden
Since we were talking about volume controls at one point I would ask for opinions on LDRs. I have used them in some applications with good results, but not as a volume control. I have seen them used as volume control by others. Does anyone here have experience with these or exposure to them? Are there test results or listening results of their use?
janneman said:
That's already nonlinear stuff. Any modulation of the cap value translates in a phase or frequency modulated signal, which is a change in spectra, hence nonlinear distortions.
I tried Diffmaker with the three tracks Jan suggested.
Very puzzling to me.
I thought that I clearly heard audible diffs between the no cap and the polypropylene tracks, not the no cap and ceramic - fast first pass. The diff tracks didn't show much of anything.
I wasn't "expecting" to hear anything, fwiw.
The Sousa band sounds way too good if it is really recorded so low in the mix, the number of available bits ought to be very very very low... hmmm...
How low in the mix is it claimed to be?
I think this needs to be run with some tracks where the diff is known a priori, just to check the software... it's probably fine, but I am puzzled by it.
And Jan, as I said before the Sousa band low enough down in the mix should be undetectable, except perhaps in a long enough very quiet passage...
Regarding that, try putting a small radio running in your listening room at the equivalent level down... with the music on, do you think you will hear it? I doubt it. You might detect an aberration in the overall sound in your room, assuming your environment is already free of environmental noise pollution... many are not, fwiw.
_-_-bear
Very puzzling to me.
I thought that I clearly heard audible diffs between the no cap and the polypropylene tracks, not the no cap and ceramic - fast first pass. The diff tracks didn't show much of anything.
I wasn't "expecting" to hear anything, fwiw.
The Sousa band sounds way too good if it is really recorded so low in the mix, the number of available bits ought to be very very very low... hmmm...
How low in the mix is it claimed to be?
I think this needs to be run with some tracks where the diff is known a priori, just to check the software... it's probably fine, but I am puzzled by it.
And Jan, as I said before the Sousa band low enough down in the mix should be undetectable, except perhaps in a long enough very quiet passage...
Regarding that, try putting a small radio running in your listening room at the equivalent level down... with the music on, do you think you will hear it? I doubt it. You might detect an aberration in the overall sound in your room, assuming your environment is already free of environmental noise pollution... many are not, fwiw.
_-_-bear
janneman said:
I really start to doubt your hearing abilities- there is nice music in poly diff. track buried at -40dB. 😕
The power of dither. It's not a resolution issue, it's signal to noise- which is audible on that track.
bear said:
I guess the sousa band is mixed in below the noise level of original recording. I can hear it when boosted 9dB, but cannot hear it at <6dB although there is a short period of silence in the song where the band should be audible if the playback level is high enough.
Jakob2 said:
It doesn't speak to the question of "can wine A and wine B be distinguished," but rather "how consistent are the judgments of relative quality between distinguishable wines." The latter is not good, which is why I have had many strong disagreements over the years with wine writers who do stupid things like use a 100 point scale.
In the case of boxes of gain where A cannot even be distinguished from B in a basic blind test, the idea of an audio writer having the similar hubris to assign point scores is beyond ludicrous, it borders on outright fraud.
vuki said:
Yes you are right, it is there. What I did just now was play the Z5U diff track at my laptop speakers, about a feet away from my head, with the boost at 0dB. Then I adjusted the windows level control so that I could just hear it.
With this setting I played the polyprop diff track and I had to set the boost to between 33dB and 36dB to hear it. Which is close to your 40dB, taking into account we probably have different uncalibrated systems anyway.
Still, the large difference between the two cap types is there, that also your experience?
Jan Didden
vuki said:
I then have to come back to one of my original queries. If the effect of the polyprop cap is so much lower than that of the sousa band, and many here claim to be readily able to detect that cap, why can't they just pick out that sousa band track with two fingers up their nose?
I'm not out to embarras anyone, but I think it is a legitimate question.
Jan Didden
janneman said:
Yeah, but we don't listen meters Jan ... both meters and ears can
lead you astray.
janneman said:
Yes, it's that large. Goes along with what I said that diff. track sound and level correlates well with some "GE beliefs".
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