Re: Re: Re: cable directionality
Where do we know, that there was no difference at all?
Maybe there was a difference but it was related to the wrong reason?
Normally i´d clearly prefer some more measured data and some controlled listening tests in the end. 🙂
Edmond Stuart said:
Where do we know, that there was no difference at all?
Maybe there was a difference but it was related to the wrong reason?
Normally i´d clearly prefer some more measured data and some controlled listening tests in the end. 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cable directionality
I don't understand how these questions would naturally follow on from what I said here, except maybe as an attempted smoke-screen or whatever.
I didn't (yet) pass any opinion on cable directionality, but I did point out that reaching the conclusions stated were not logical (or "scientific", if you prefer) based on what Edmond told us. His friend may well have heard some differences, even though his thoughts over the likely reasons were similarly not logical.
The two issues are entirely separate, and as those who say that they do experience these changes are apparently expected never to jump to any incorrect conclusions over what they hear or why, it seems to me that the same criteria should apply universally.
Apologies to Edmond for mis-spelling his name earlier.
Regards,
syn08 said:
I don't understand how these questions would naturally follow on from what I said here, except maybe as an attempted smoke-screen or whatever.
I didn't (yet) pass any opinion on cable directionality, but I did point out that reaching the conclusions stated were not logical (or "scientific", if you prefer) based on what Edmond told us. His friend may well have heard some differences, even though his thoughts over the likely reasons were similarly not logical.
The two issues are entirely separate, and as those who say that they do experience these changes are apparently expected never to jump to any incorrect conclusions over what they hear or why, it seems to me that the same criteria should apply universally.
Apologies to Edmond for mis-spelling his name earlier.
Regards,
About cable directionality, I once read a remark I found pertinent.
If a cable is good in one direction and bad (less good) in the reverse direction, it means that it suffers from a default in its structure. Whatever it is, it would be logical that its manufacturer cures this default before selling it with arrows on its sleeve indicating the right flowing direction for better sound.
If a cable is good in one direction and bad (less good) in the reverse direction, it means that it suffers from a default in its structure. Whatever it is, it would be logical that its manufacturer cures this default before selling it with arrows on its sleeve indicating the right flowing direction for better sound.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: cable directionality
No.
Science is not a democracy. In science, you are wrong until you prove you are right. As long as you did not prove your statement, anything I tell about your statement can be considered true.
Bobken said:
No.
Science is not a democracy. In science, you are wrong until you prove you are right. As long as you did not prove your statement, anything I tell about your statement can be considered true.
syn 08, have you ever worked as a scientific worker? I did, in 2 Institutes, and my publications can be googled. Anyway, I do not idealize world of scientists. They are people as everyone else, and I would say some of them more conceited then common people.
PMA said:
I have more credentials and I did more scientific and academic work than you could think. I have more than 100 papers published in peer reviewed journals and conference proceedings. True, not in the audio or applied electronics, which are my hobbies, and not in the last 10-15 years. There's nothing in my work that could interest this forum, except (and here I am probably fooling myself) the scientific foundation and principles.
I agree that scientists are prone to errors as any other humans, but this doesn't diminish the value of the scientific approach, at least when some degree of recognition is sought after.
I don't have any problem with the subjective team approach, as long as they would start with "to me", "in my opinion", "as far as I can tell", etc... Is the degree of generalisation that raises "that flag". Oh, and the snake oil merchandisers as well!
Well said PMA, and I must apologize to Bear for getting him into this. I keep forgetting that we cannot talk about 'taboo' subjects, except among ourselves.
However, wire is one important aspect of the 'Blowtorch' and I won't back down on this. We have now made sonic comparisons of 3 different wire types that we have used in constructing the Blowtorch. I can certainly hear the difference between copper and silver, both of the highest quality I normally know how to obtain. Copper sounds less articulate and more forgiving in the Blowtorch, not really bad, BUT not really the 'best of the best' either. Bear can understand this, most of you will never have the chance to make this comparison.
Personally, my present speaker cables are made by Cardas, and are from Enid Lumley's personal hi fi system when she broke it down about 15 years ago. She gave them to me, as I had lost my hi fi system in the firestorm, as she thought they should go to a good home, and I had not yet replaced my temporary (Radio Shack) cables at that time. 'You will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.' to get me to go back to something ordinary.
However, wire is one important aspect of the 'Blowtorch' and I won't back down on this. We have now made sonic comparisons of 3 different wire types that we have used in constructing the Blowtorch. I can certainly hear the difference between copper and silver, both of the highest quality I normally know how to obtain. Copper sounds less articulate and more forgiving in the Blowtorch, not really bad, BUT not really the 'best of the best' either. Bear can understand this, most of you will never have the chance to make this comparison.
Personally, my present speaker cables are made by Cardas, and are from Enid Lumley's personal hi fi system when she broke it down about 15 years ago. She gave them to me, as I had lost my hi fi system in the firestorm, as she thought they should go to a good home, and I had not yet replaced my temporary (Radio Shack) cables at that time. 'You will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.' to get me to go back to something ordinary.
I can also here a difference when I change input wire in my preamp case. Output has no wire (PCB and XLRs directly on the rear panel), but input has. About 10cm, and even this short length makes difference with different cables.
By the way, audio cables I use now are different: some are directional, some are not. TRS and RCA cables are non - directional, while XLR cables are: if to reverse them they don't sound at all.
Right on PMA. Actually the 'Blowtorch' was made on purpose to minimize the circuit board wiring and rely on pure teflon covered silver wire that Bob liked to use. It was felt that the silver wire did less to the sound than an equivalent copper length on a large circuit board. However, the Parasound JC-2 and the former JC-80 were both designed with MINIMUM wiring and maximum board wiring as much as we could do, BECAUSE our remaining connecting wire was not going to be of the same quality (just too darned expensive) as the silver wire, but the same person (Bob Crump) selected it for the Parasound JC-2.
We get pretty good reviews on the JC-2 as well, but the JC-2 is NO Blowtorch! Any more than a Volkswagon is a Porsche.
We get pretty good reviews on the JC-2 as well, but the JC-2 is NO Blowtorch! Any more than a Volkswagon is a Porsche.
PMA said:
Hmm... very interesting my dear Pavel. So coax cables don't have a 'direction'. Great. Breaking news. 😀
Cheers,
Edmond.
Interesting indeed is all the work done to put as much of the interconnect on PC boards when the copper used is probably not of the highest quality and certainly not labled as to what direction is "optimal".
Edmond, I have never spoken about "directionality" of cables. Show me a post where I did. I have no special experience with this issue, so I better stay silent on this topic.
The only thing I probably mentioned was shield connected at one side of cable and left unconnected on the other (shielded twist).
The only thing I probably mentioned was shield connected at one side of cable and left unconnected on the other (shielded twist).
john curl said:
John, do you have a prefered wire diameter for input wiring and also your opinion on solid vs stranded wiring?
Why do subjectivists always have better sounding systems? 😀 (You don't have to answer.)
André
Andre Visser said:
Why do subjectivists always think they have better sounding systems? 😀 (You don't have to answer.)
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