Well, it's not that I will never buy an amp that sounds bad to me, I will never buy an amp that doesn't sound very good to me and better than what I presently have.
Now, you said I was biased because of I read 1 user's review on this amp.
Obviously you don't know me and my attitude to reviews.
I don't form an opinion according to reviews. The proof for this is the fact that I tried amps that got many fantastic reviews, but I went only with what I heard and didn't buy them.
The review I read served one thing only, it caused me to want to hear that amp with my own ears, on my own system. Nothing more, nothing less.
So, here goes your assumption about me being biased in this case, being biased because I read a review.
This is a pure hypothetical speculation.
Oh boy!
You speculate about a person you don't know at all.
I NEVER made a purchasing decision based on discount.
It seems like you have fixed ideas about me without actually knowing me.
It reminds me the fixed ideas some people have on some groups of people.
Well, well...
now here's a clue for you all, the walrus was Paul...
Doh! I mean here's an idea, back to the Blowtorch. I am wondering (now that it has been brought up) what does the line stage of the Blowtorch spec at for slew rate?? We can treat it like an opamp, no?
Then how does it fare on the square/sine test??
Let's go friends, where are the sims?
Where are the real world tests?
C'mon enough sniping from behind rocks, and slinging mud about. Time to get with the program !!! We now have a new criterion to consider.
Let's someone test a moderne ultra low distortion audio opamp or two with the square/sine test and let's see the perfection!!
_-_-bear
PS. please take the discussion of reviews and amplifier purchases off to another place? Thanks...
PPS. Hoping Trevor will help us set up and perform that input/output comparison test, still... <holds breath>
now here's a clue for you all, the walrus was Paul...
Doh! I mean here's an idea, back to the Blowtorch. I am wondering (now that it has been brought up) what does the line stage of the Blowtorch spec at for slew rate?? We can treat it like an opamp, no?
Then how does it fare on the square/sine test??
Let's go friends, where are the sims?
Where are the real world tests?
C'mon enough sniping from behind rocks, and slinging mud about. Time to get with the program !!! We now have a new criterion to consider.
Let's someone test a moderne ultra low distortion audio opamp or two with the square/sine test and let's see the perfection!!
_-_-bear
PS. please take the discussion of reviews and amplifier purchases off to another place? Thanks...
PPS. Hoping Trevor will help us set up and perform that input/output comparison test, still... <holds breath>
Hi Pavel,
Yes, you got my meaning exactly.
Too many bloody egos around here some times.
Hi Scott (again),
There will always be people who feel you wronged them in some way. I wouldn't worry too much about them. Especially if they are stirring up ancient events. I have to say that people who feel empowered are generally pretty touchy though.
I would simply ignore these people. You are known to those who matter around you.
-Chris
Yes, you got my meaning exactly.
Too many bloody egos around here some times.
Hi Scott (again),
There will always be people who feel you wronged them in some way. I wouldn't worry too much about them. Especially if they are stirring up ancient events. I have to say that people who feel empowered are generally pretty touchy though.
I would simply ignore these people. You are known to those who matter around you.
-Chris
Hi Lumba,
I have to disagree with you sir. It's far easier to sell products when there are no specifications to guide anyone. You have to agree that it's pretty simple to design something with decent specs and good sonics these days.
Look at this another way. If the specs are not good enough, the interested buyer probably doesn't have enough money anyway!
Hi Bear,
There are far better places to talk about that.
Hi Joshua,
It would be nice to keep responses and comments to technical points. I think we have all seen enough personal shots to last us a lifetime, and that's in this one thread only!
-Chris
I have to disagree with you sir. It's far easier to sell products when there are no specifications to guide anyone. You have to agree that it's pretty simple to design something with decent specs and good sonics these days.
Look at this another way. If the specs are not good enough, the interested buyer probably doesn't have enough money anyway!
Hi Bear,
Yes!
I had no intentions of going there. I just felt that John would have an easier time of keeping things focused on what he built and why he did certain things. Never having seen one, I think a look at what made this preamp tick would be instructional.
Oh! Fer sure!!!
There are far better places to talk about that.
Y'all lost me there.
Hi Joshua,
Designing for 100 MHz or better is an entirely different thing. Even the 40 MHz bandwidth of the 3585A is pushing things quite a bit. I just threw that in for a faint hope on these. Mind you, a low noise preamp that would extend the S/N down past the 80 dB limit it now has would be great. Such a preamplifier would work with your 'scope also, but not to full bandwidth.
I think that getting personal about some posts only serves to distract the attention of the thread. Jan was not criticizing you, he was only pointing out how wide a definition can be taken about your earlier comments. His response should be taken as an impersonal comment. Often, we use the word "you" to designate every reader very generally. You (meaning Joshua now) took his examples to be a specific comment on you personally.
It would be nice to keep responses and comments to technical points. I think we have all seen enough personal shots to last us a lifetime, and that's in this one thread only!
-Chris
Lumba Ogir said:
I understand Lumba, it is a new joke of your humor again, since it is too brought generalization. Specifications do relate to sound quality. What does not relate, irrelevant specifications, here I agree with you absolutely. Many of them very often are used to mislead potential buyers.
Do you have an idea what specifications may be relevant? Let's try to find together if there are some correlations between sound reproduction quality and specifications? There should be some, I still hope.
Let's take several amps, some of them reproduce sounds nice, another sounds more artificial, measure, compare, then try to figure out correlations. It's the way that is used by NLP to model experiences and strategies of people without needs to know how exactly perceptions and thinking works. Write down everything, then discard steps one by one. If after discarding some step it does not work the step is needed. And so on.
Hi Anatoliy,
The problem is that most people would not understand such specifications. But, I do agree with you. The basics such as output power into both 8 and 4 ohms, plus signal to noise ratio are a good start. These things do pass on meaningful information. THD at three frequencies would be nice as a minimum spec everyone should supply, and at two power levels (low and higher but not just before clipping). Then there are a number of factors that could provide additional, meaningful information.
You know what I'd like to see almost more than anything else? How about a well designed chassis, good minimal soldering work and some way to limit how small or cheaply a heat sink is.
All these things add value to a purchase for the consumer. An anti-garbage law would be very welcome.
I guess we are trying to enforce ethical marketing and selling practices. We have to get back to looking at the intent in any advertising. Have fun with that. Never forget too that most people shop on price.
-Chris
The problem is that most people would not understand such specifications. But, I do agree with you. The basics such as output power into both 8 and 4 ohms, plus signal to noise ratio are a good start. These things do pass on meaningful information. THD at three frequencies would be nice as a minimum spec everyone should supply, and at two power levels (low and higher but not just before clipping). Then there are a number of factors that could provide additional, meaningful information.
You know what I'd like to see almost more than anything else? How about a well designed chassis, good minimal soldering work and some way to limit how small or cheaply a heat sink is.
All these things add value to a purchase for the consumer. An anti-garbage law would be very welcome.
I guess we are trying to enforce ethical marketing and selling practices. We have to get back to looking at the intent in any advertising. Have fun with that. Never forget too that most people shop on price.
-Chris
anatech said:
Graphs would be preferable, to see how things change in dynamics. For example, speaking of harmonic distortions (I don't mean we have to be limited by them!) it would be nice to show a waterfall, with frequency, output power, and level of harmonics.
This specs of course are reflected indirectly on prices, cost of repair, , MTBF, and reliability. What I mean, to find specs that correlate with quality of sound reproduction.
What do you mean? Anti-recycling law?
I did not have such an intention, however everything you write is very significant and is defined by exploitation conditions. What I meant, simply to find measurable differences between equipments that sound real, and that sounds artificial. Lumba Ogir dismisses all specs as if they don't reflect reproduction quality, while I do still believe that such specs are very possible if to search for them honestly and thoroughly.
bear said:
Bear, you would see nothing in an opamp like THS3001, I can make you absolutely sure.
In fact the DIM100 3.18kHz + 15kHz test is very easy to fulfill for modern really fast devices.
On the other hand, I do strongly agree that there are still issues in sound of very good opamps. The DIM100 is not the explanation, I am very sure.
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