But, once you have chopped out a 2cmx2cm square from anywhere in the record, your replay options for the same track are somewhat diminished.
And using another disc, well if it was from a different stamper all bets are off.
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No where did I say that. Another straw man setup. yes, and that is exactly what I did as I was the one responsible for keeping that one-off SEM machine in operation. There were a lot of things i did in 25 years there in various divisions before running projects.
Too bad your own bias gets in your way.
THx-RNMarsh
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Correct. small size only would be used. A piece of the LP.
An SEM should not be needed. If you just want to see wear pattern on LP or the needle tip. The one I used for sputtering parts... not for SEM use though, could show molecules of the HE. IIRC about X100,000+. We used a FET detector cooled in LN.
Microscope nor SEM would not tell tell you how much distortion there would be in the LP groove/cart. IMO distortion increase is a more useful indicator of wear than a picture of the groove wall.
-RNM
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Thanks for the link; that's a nice resource for information that otherwise is often hard to get.
I'd assume that the "scare quotes" (DPH welcome to the group, I'm the proud founder of the scare quoters gang ) are used, because your use of the term "psychoacoustic(s)" is ...err,um....quite different from its usual meaning.
Wrt demand of more evidence from others, my advise as usual, is to give good example by explaining what you mean. I've asked before and didn't get an (useful) answers; it does not help to tell others that their wording like "better" is meaningless, without explaining why that should be so and what alternative you'd propose and why you'd propose it.
I'm sure I've said it before, but your "one line" posting style often meets your rules to identify "trolling" and so you should't be suprised that the interactions gets sparse.
It doesn't matter if you prefer the companion of the "gossip twins".... 🙂
Perhaps that is what he meant, but wouldn't that mean they were scare quotes? Regards the meaninglessness of saying something sounds better, I've explained that is only of value to the individual saying it, it can only become useful to anyone else if there is some correlation with some evidence.
Can you explain to me how I'm using the term psychoacoustics incorrectly?
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Why is the distortion before and after LP playing being ignored?
Distortion measuring of the LP is easier than an expensive microscope and tells more.
THx-RNMarsh
Distortion measuring of the LP is easier than an expensive microscope and tells more.
THx-RNMarsh
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Then we have controversy here. Some measure increased distortion. Going from bad to worse.
?
THx-RNMarsh
Not really. The tools available for analysis are way better than they were back in the pre-CD era. And George has nothing to sell...
Edit Also note that Walton, in 1965 showed that 250 plays at 3gm VTF with a low effective mass tip did little more than buff up the surface.
Edit Also note that Walton, in 1965 showed that 250 plays at 3gm VTF with a low effective mass tip did little more than buff up the surface.
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Obviously an other portion of the groove. Not the same wavelength.
Anyway, I don't see the interest of such an experiment: I should prefer a distortion measurement of a test tones record, if it is ever possible to do such a measurement with all those pops and clicks and surface noise ;-)
Anyway, not only did digital kill vinyl, but the dead horse stinks of the corpse.
For my part, if I tend to prefer 24-96 to 16-44.1, (subtle perceived differences) there are rare cases where I prefer the copy of the Vinyl to a directly digitized version of the same master tape (Day and night). And it is not for high fidelity reasons but because, precisely, it is not the same master tape, like the strange remixes of the old Beatles.*
[EDIT] *-I had not yet read RNM which says the same thing.
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Sales of vinyl are beginning to exceed that of CDs now! Of course that is dollar volume as CDs tend to be cheaper.
Both are dwarfed by paid downloads. For some reason free downloads are also quite popular.
Now for the seeming mandatory auto comparison, there are more horses around now in the U.S. than before the automobile age! Also of note the automobiles were hailed as an end to horse pollution! Seems keeping all those horses out of the cities was a noted improvement.
Of course not without controversy. Teamsters and milkmen found advantages with horses. A milkman could deliver to several houses and then the horse would move up to where he ended up. No need to walk back to the wagon. Teamsters could back their wagon close to the loading dock and then get out and go "chic-chic" to instruct the horse to back up a bit more. Finally equalled recently by trucks now with backup cameras.
Another benefit is that horse pollution could be used as fertilizer.
Anyone up for arguing about the merits of different horseshoes?
Next up how different vinyl formulations affect record wear. Or we could recognize that record treatments may just be different for different vinyl thicknesses and formulations.
So what is the best feed for your horse?
Both are dwarfed by paid downloads. For some reason free downloads are also quite popular.
Now for the seeming mandatory auto comparison, there are more horses around now in the U.S. than before the automobile age! Also of note the automobiles were hailed as an end to horse pollution! Seems keeping all those horses out of the cities was a noted improvement.
Of course not without controversy. Teamsters and milkmen found advantages with horses. A milkman could deliver to several houses and then the horse would move up to where he ended up. No need to walk back to the wagon. Teamsters could back their wagon close to the loading dock and then get out and go "chic-chic" to instruct the horse to back up a bit more. Finally equalled recently by trucks now with backup cameras.
Another benefit is that horse pollution could be used as fertilizer.
Anyone up for arguing about the merits of different horseshoes?
Next up how different vinyl formulations affect record wear. Or we could recognize that record treatments may just be different for different vinyl thicknesses and formulations.
So what is the best feed for your horse?
Al shoes protect your horse from accidental electrocution for a start. I've had a number of drunken sessions with Farriers so bring it on.
Oh and read the Pardee paper on record friction. It's very interesting. Oddly no one seems to have tried to replicate it.
Oh and read the Pardee paper on record friction. It's very interesting. Oddly no one seems to have tried to replicate it.
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My problem is a question of attitude. I do not understand why some refuse to simply listen. They start from measurements or other visual evidences to figure out what they hear. Why are they so afraid of their own feelings ?
I start from listenings and try to find an explanation with measurements and correct scientific explanation. A total opposite attitude.
When I'm not sure of differences, and I need a lot of back and forth to figure them out, I consider logically there is no issue.
If there is no real difference, preferring one solution over another leads to the same result. And, if there seems to be one, the question of the price difference comes into play: Is the additional investment worth an improvement so difficult to perceive?
Take this fun story of cable sound. When, in the 1970s, I heard about this, I tried it out. I found, indeed, slight differences, confirmed by measurements. I found some pretty convincing explanations (serial impedance VS impedance curves of the speakers, overshoot of preamp signals with the parasitic capacitance of the cables etc.). This is how I started to think about the compensating networks in all my speakers. Anyway, it has never been a question for me to use cables with a value for money close to the divide by infinity.
Regarding this retro vinyl fashion, it makes me laugh. No need to have three eyes torn off, to be lobotomized or to organize blind test AZERTY protocols to perceive a difference that you can already indicate before the first note is played ;-)
Even less to invest in a research laboratory in electronic microscopy. And about the wear and tear on vinyls, do you remember the sound of the jukeboxes?
Crying every time I heard the vinyl version of one of my mixes, I could hardly tell the difference between the same master and its digitized version: My turntable has not been used for listening for >30 years. Is it still working?
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Don't worry your pretty little head 😉 , everyone is different, not a problem, well it is for some, obviously 😉 Psychoacoustic may even play a role?
Psychoacoustics - Wikipedia
"The term "psychoacoustics" also arises in discussions about cognitive psychology and the effects that personal expectations, prejudices, and predispositions may have on listeners' relative evaluations and comparisons of sonic aesthetics and acuity and on listeners' varying determinations about the relative qualities of various musical instruments and performers. The expression that one "hears what one wants (or expects) to hear" may pertain in such discussions"
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“The distortion between the magnesium baskets of the drive units is being routed away through a new and separate grounding circuit. The circuit connects from the loudspeaker to the ground terminal of your power distributor via the Schuko connector in our Freedom© cable.
By balancing and filtering tensions through the dedicated Freedom© circuit, we achieve a cleaner, more accurate, detailed and rich sound red ”
What remains to be wanted with so many advantages ?
Hans
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