John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

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I gave an example of ABX results which showed that two files were audibly differentiated & the only measurable difference found between them was at 90dB

Did you miss this or simply just deny it's existence?

I followed the link. Quite what the tests was is unclear to me - just a list of numbers.

If you are telling me you can hear 15 ppm distortion artifacts I am telling you you can’t.

But, let’s have the details of the test and we can discuss it.

My contention is if you play a 15 ppm distortion amp and one of those 1% distortion tube thingies, then I suspect telling the difference will be easy. Play a piece of classical music through a 1 ppm amp (try syn08’s PGP for example) and another amp at 15 ppm you won’t hear it.

Anyway, peace.
 
I get that you go hunting the web for things SY posts for you to critise, but It is starting to come across as very very very petty on your part?

Unchecked assumptions are often misleading. 😉
No hunting needed, there are just two topics that are naturally of interest to me (Bayesian approach, and Norms and Standards for the Discourse) which I follow ,so I stumbled upon that, and was slightly surprised.

If such an obvious discrepancy occurs, it is worth mentioning given the context.
I mentioned clearly what my critic is about and therefore do a bit wonder why you didn't object when our two friendly colleagues used only mysterious hints about posts of mine in other forums (that allegedley would show whatever hidden agenda; when pressed for evidence on that a tragicomedy happened) for disparaging purposes?!
 
I get that you go hunting the web for things SY posts for you to critise, but It is starting to come across as very very very petty on your part?

One doesn't have to 'hunt' for SY's posts on positive controls - just today he posted on ASR
If a detector (whether human or otherwise) is incapable of resolving a measurement, it cannot be reliably used. This is Experimental Design 101. One reason why in my sensory panels, I used positive controls and replicates.

All you have to do to see his changing attitude is search here on his posts mentioning Positive Controls - always prevaricating, "where appropriate" (this is his politician's get-out clause) - not "Experimental Design 101" as he posts on ASR

As I said, performance artist
 
I can't have music on when I'm eating. Thankfully I don't go to restaurants much where there is background music, for a start my life revolves around this forum and if I'm away from a device for too long FOMO starts to set in big time.

FOMO? I had to look it up and yep, I can understand that.

My interest with diyAudio is with browsing the technical forums (invaluable) and this thread, which has been of considerable help in understanding delusional behaviour through adherence to outmoded belief systems of doubtful provenance. Extremely valuable training for self-assessing my own visual artwork at a time when I am right out on an existential limb with no one in sight.

tapestryofsound
 
I concur that it does not.. However, as I said, research, development, scientific method, and peer review are all part of a PhD and R and D. Once the methodology for rigorous scientific work is known and understood, it can indeed be applied to other realms. (edit: In my review of work of others, I may not be an expert, but that does not stop me from evaluation of a paper for internal consistency as well as scientifically sound method. When I point out flaws in either, nobody ever tells me I'm an idiot because I don't know the discipline..they would have to meet me to know I'm an idiot 😉 ).Peer review is a further test of the validity of a method and conclusions.

I too am rather strict on test methodology, it is far too easy to fool one's self.

As to peer review, in my line of work that is far more difficult. A combination of doing things never done before, and the concern of intellectual property. I've fixed very expensive object motion control issues, but cannot publish or peer review as there are several vendors of those objects, all with the same problems.

But luckily, collaboration, discussion, knowledge transfer, are all quite congenial and occur at very nice levels...unlike the distastful catfight here.

jn

The peer review comes in the form of adoption of the technology or methodology. Given the politics of publication peer review (and gaming), I'd argue the latter is infinitely more important than any publication.

And I always read the methods section after the abstract/intro to draw my own conclusions about the true nature of the results rather than the stated ones (which are often not justified by the experiments themselves). Both fortunately and sadly, methods is getting pushed out of papers into the supplemental literature, which means it's often more thorough in description, too.

Alas, all should remember that the onus of proof falls on the claimant. If you don't care, then that's fine as well, but don't expect to be taken seriously.
 
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I followed the link. Quite what the tests was is unclear to me - just a list of numbers.
You mean the Foobar ABX results? The "Gold Standard" for used here for "proof" that something is audible?

If you are telling me you can hear 15 ppm distortion artifacts I am telling you you can’t.

But, let’s have the details of the test and we can discuss it.
Perhaps you could read the ALL of the thread whose link I gave

My contention is if you play a 15 ppm distortion amp and one of those 1% distortion tube thingies, then I suspect telling the difference will be easy. Play a piece of classical music through a 1 ppm amp (try syn08’s PGP for example) and another amp at 15 ppm you won’t hear it.

Anyway, peace.
Sure, peace but read & understand the ABX results linked to
 
It is up to you to prove me wrong, by citations of a relevant literature.

Hope you do not think I have not discovered your endless word games.

Sorry PMA, but your claim and your obligation to bring the evidence.

You surely remember "the burden of proof is on the claimant" and you would not try the old reversal approach, would you?

And please, take Feynman's advice/reminder serious and try to not fool yourself.
If you really think that asking for evidence for your claim has anything in common with word games then you must have lost something during your journey.
 
I don't use ABX for double blind testing myself. I prefer to use A/B.
That's interesting.
I'll bet you've never participated in audio electronics DBT.
You would lose.

I am for blind testing, not against it. ABX is insensitive is all, so I prefer to use other blind and or double-blind protocols. In fact, I have described how one can usefully do one's own double blind testing of oneself. Nothing new here.
So what you are saying is, you do DBT but not level matched?
 
Separately, finally I managed to get one. This the 3009 series II improved. I had the original 3009 but gave it away in 94/95.
 

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I concur that it does not.. However, as I said, research, development, scientific method, and peer review are all part of a PhD and R and D. Once the methodology for rigorous scientific work is known and understood, it can indeed be applied to other realms. (edit: In my review of work of others, I may not be an expert, but that does not stop me from evaluation of a paper for internal consistency as well as scientifically sound method. When I point out flaws in either, nobody ever tells me I'm an idiot because I don't know the discipline..they would have to meet me to know I'm an idiot 😉 ).Peer review is a further test of the validity of a method and conclusions.

I'm glad you were not trying to suggest that a PhD conferred an expertise across the board.

Sure & I don't doubt SY's technical abilities in electronics what I'm talking about is how he chooses tests & conditions which support his worldview & lead to the conclusions he wants - not what I would call a scientific approach but all too often is found in science & SY is well practised at this art
 
If such an obvious discrepancy occurs, it is worth mentioning given the context. I mentioned clearly what my critic is about and therefore do a bit wonder why you didn't object when our two friendly colleagues used only mysterious hints about posts of mine in other forums (that allegedley would show whatever hidden agenda; when pressed for evidence on that a tragicomedy happened) for disparaging purposes?!

I don't know what beef a couple of people have with you and I don't actually care. What matters to me is the discussion on here. Which is why I don't object as I don't have a clue what they are on about.

As such what someone who got fed up with the behaviour on here which is at times between the average politican and 4-chan and moved on is posting now somewhere else is of zero relevance to me. Hence my comment.

In the last 24 hours this thread has once again proved to be beyond redemption. Any hope of any progress gets stamped out. Time to go and discuss something completely pointless but hopefully more satisfying on another thread (steps up for MMs I gotta find a use for them).
 
mmerrill99,
Stuart is not here to defend himself, so drop it.

I happen to know him personally on a one to one basis. We worked a little together and I found he was both honest and funny as heck! He did have a finely developed BS meter you you apparently are one of those people who set it off often.

Knowing Stuart as I do, if I have to judge what you are saying against what I know to be true, you come up rather short in the honesty department if you have nothing to say but negative things. And that behind his back! Cowards all.

Given a chance to work with him again, I would jump at the chance.

-Chris
 
What about Mark's evidence?

Mhm, does that mean in your book there is no difference between a description of a subjective perceptual description and a assertion about a certain property of a test protocol?

The latter being the most commonly used test protocol in various fields (according to the literature) and now there is demand to 'proof the negative' (i.e. that it does not suffer as a test protocol more than others from the knowledge of participants about the EUT)???

It is still a thread for friends of surrealism..... 🙂
 
mmerrill99,
Stuart is not here to defend himself, so drop it.

I happen to know him personally on a one to one basis. We worked a little together and I found he was both honest and funny as heck! He did have a finely developed BS meter you you apparently are one of those people who set it off often.

Knowing Stuart as I do, if I have to judge what you are saying against what I know to be true, you come up rather short in the honesty department if you have nothing to say but negative things. And that behind his back! Cowards all.

Given a chance to work with him again, I would jump at the chance.

-Chris

Good on you
When you see him next you might ask about his change in attitude about Positive controls in sensory testing that he now states on ASR Vs what he used to state here

It's interesting to read the follow on post on ASR where someone says about positive controls "it depends" (which is what he used to say in his posts here) & his answer is "In sensory research, it's the norm. This isn't pharmacology, so not surprisingly, the experimental design needs to be different."

Interesting in his change of position.

If he says that he has learned something along the way then I would be impressed but judging from his history of posts, I doubt it.
 
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