Thanks Dimitri for putting up some measurements on a 45 year old product and showing what happens over time. Back in those days, there were no accessible RCA phono connectors that were gold plated. Many at the time were just cheap stamped metal, perhaps solder coated. This zinc alloy connector in the Levinson JC-2 preamp were the best RCA connectors available at the time. The Japanese manufacturers first started making quality RCA connectors, back more than 40 years ago, and would put them almost made, even today. Of course, there were better engineered connectors like BNC or some made by Swiss manufacturers, BUT they were incompatible with all the RCA connectors on typical audio cables, so they required ADAPTORS, and this created even more problems and expense, so I use 'selected' RCA connectors even today. Of course you could see these zinc alloy connectors discolor over time and cleaning or at least 'exercising' by twisting once in awhile has always been recommended. It is refreshing to see some actual measurements, but we could have expected problems for the last 40 years.
Audible aspects are all critical if one is working on improving the room acoustics. Some are easier (high octaves) to remedy than others (low octaves) but non critical would be to those who aren't trying to improve it.
So are amps.
You can study up on this. It may just save you time and money you are about to spend on.
You mean in your own world. OK.
Where and when did you take the poll?
I have spread the same message in the past. My speaker design hobby were magnitudes longer than my amplifier design. I don't disagree but i think we can have another/different concept of 'weakest point'. Simply because i found that speaker design is almost a job done while amp design is not.
Ohhh......an untapped keg of snake oil?! 😀
What I meant by that is there are maybe (conjecture) aspects of amplification that could (possibly) be tweaked to enhance a symbiotic relationship with the other components/room.
This is on a specific one on one level of course.
I've seen audible difference resulted in DBT of tube amp and transistor amp. That tube amp's frequency response being what it is, I'm not surprised. As for contemporary transistor amps of same class sounding different, you can test it with one amp. How? Play at different volume level. I suspect that your observation of "distinct sound or ‘character’" amplifiers was due to level mismatch.
Has anyone ever tried this famous ‘goop’ ?
Maybe it helps with microphonics? I know that’s a real thing.
You mean you already have speakers with lower distortion than typical amps you can buy these days? 😱 Do you know what this means? You can be a millionaire! Congratulations!!!
Not going to argue that because I’ve only had three different amps since I’ve had the ability to adjust source voltage.
the differences between those three are audible But.....they are three different animals so still a (what do you call it?) null?
It just seems in random listening some SS amps are cleaner and more dynamic than others apples for apples.....I can’t help but think architectural or component quality is what makes the difference?
Many people try to do exactly what you are describing. If its fun, go ahead and have fun.
On the other hand, if you want to hear sound like the artist intended you to hear, that mix and match trial and error approach is very problematic. It means you are using different pieces of equipment to make the defects of other pieces of equipment less unpalatable, or otherwise more to you liking.
A much more technically correct approach would be to identify the exact defects and fix each one that is technically possible to fix. Not necessarily cheap or easy, of course. However, much better than spending money on expensive gear and trying to diy tune it to taste as you describe.
Anyone who can afford to do that in an effort to get sound they like could choose to spend much more wisely. Unfortunately, mistaken audiophile lore is easier to find than actual good advice. Even people with access to expert advice often think they know better and make costly mistakes. Some funny stories about that, only funny because what can you do but laugh it off? Taking it seriously would be depressing.
You can also identify what it is you like or don't like. Very good way is to start by listening to the cleanest, lowest distortion system technically possible. Doesn't sound at all like what you may imagine. It is very, very musical, not overly crisp and clear or overly anything else. Then season a bit to taste and see if you like that better. Starting from that direction can make people realize more distortion may not be to their taste as much as they thought. Usually reproduction distortion sounds better when it is masking some worse problem.
Of course, there may be some exceptions for some types of music, where the playback distortion is intended to be part of the listening experience (gamelan?).
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I'm sure you've overcome any personal biases you have, but studies have shown that other people have not (this, or something a lot like it and mentioning the Toole paper has been posted in this thread before):
Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests
I know the effects of HF reflections in a room. Room modes are more serious but I know how to avoid it. Room acoustics to speaker design is like grounding to amp design. I have no problems related to both.
I disagree, but I will not attempt a debate or discussion on this very topic. Have you ever understood why there are so many disagreements in audio like this thread?
No polls. Just when i joined DBTs when i was young(er), or joining online listening tests, or doing ABX with my friends, I know that most people are deaf. I also followed listening tests in this site. When nobody can post a positive Foobar ABX result, I tried it and passed. Of course i don't need to publish that, as it could lead to arguments such as it was caused by my low quality sound card.
Here are two turntables, I'm sure everyone here will have no problem reserving their judgement until they actually hearing these, rather than letting these photographs to give them any ideas about which one would sound better:
Thorens Reference- Vinyl Engine
Garrard AT60 - Manual - Automatic Record Changer - Vinyl Engine
ETA: I'm also sure the names of the links won't influence anyone either!
Thorens Reference- Vinyl Engine
Garrard AT60 - Manual - Automatic Record Changer - Vinyl Engine
ETA: I'm also sure the names of the links won't influence anyone either!
Thanks for the in depth lesson in sensibility 🙂
Where does one find one of these clean,distortion free systems?
I’ve demoed some pretty nice stuff in some pretty nice showrooms but those are becoming far and few between.....and to tell you the truth they were rather boring. Most exciting system I ever demoed was a set of bob crites modded klipschorns driven by some early Krell mono blocks sourced from a dat player.
I’ve been around the block enough to know what music (realistically) sounds like and have been fairly successful tuning by ear which judging by all you fellers is apparently almost impossible.
But I really think if y’all cut loose a little and tried tuning to the room/lp you may be surprised at the results.
Speaker quality can always be improved (especially enclosure). It requires more money. Should I purchased a plasma tweeter? My tweeters are at least better than PMA Seas tweeter, which i believe are already above threshold.
As i see it, 'distortion' is not like what many people think it is.
If you notice the sighted listening tests are in the same preference order as the blind listening tests (except for one). Note also that the blind listening preferences for all speakers don't vary by much all are close in preference to one another - is this correct - are these speakers that close together in sound that preference results would show such a small difference between best & worst?
But I still think blind preference testing is preferable to blind ABX testing - it would have been interesting to see an ABX test on these speakers
Gamelan is our traditional music and instrument. Not distortion, it is just that the sound cannot easily be reproduced. There's mystical aura about gamelan sound. I like it but unfortunately my system couldn't reproduce it properly.
With your experience and good ears you can do that actually. But without understanding of the Physics, the result is limited.
No it is not limitless either. When there is strong room mode around 300Hz, using ears you might accidentally create a wide dip around it. It will sound good of course. But what happen when you move the speaker, or remove the room mode?
You might be surprised, that a good amp can make speaker issues disappears.
Three way has more issues than two way speakers. When you have gone digital with sub to main, i suggest you go all digital (three way). May be you need to purchase a new one if yours is only 4 channels. Your passive xo can be the bottleneck.
In order to answer your question, I would first need to find out what you mean by three different animals when describing amps. What do you mean by that?
One way to get answer to your question is to look up the measurements.
How would he find out what the artist intended him to hear is like?
All you have to do is cite evidence that supports your disagreement.
You mean most people that you've encountered but not most people in the world. BTW, do you know what the average age of forum members here is? That may give you some context.
You just contradicted your own statement "speaker design is almost a job done while amp design is not."
You are free to express your opinion.
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