Well if it is, then maybe there is an overlap between drivers in the dsp crossover that is causing what you hear. No harm in having a look. ToS
Probably wise to check the phasing of everything and the close matching of speaker crossovers. What happens if you play mono through both speakers and sweep the frequency, does imaging stay perfectly centered? There is also a very characteristic sound to phase reversal, which some people like. Its sometimes used as a stereo widening effect.
Sub xo is all dsp, there’s dsp controlling ‘distance’ on the mains (which I’m pretty sure is just changing absolute phase.) that’s very handy for blending the sub/mains.
The mains are 10” two way crossed passively. There’s no telling what’s going on inside this Yamaha reciever....it has some sort of room correction (ypao) that must be engaged to make adjustments to the sub xo.
In other words the only way to really tell what’s happening is to measure.
What gives your opinion more "weight" is to accompany it with relevant evidence.
Just checked it with a miles Davis mono recording and it was pinpoint center stage, Ive never listened to a mono recording on this setup......all I can say is wow.....did not expect that kind of soundstage!
I should have qualified ‘modern’ era mono recording....although ‘57 is getting back there it still had a modern tone.
Jelly roll does not! At least the tracks I just played don’t. 😛
Jelly roll does not! At least the tracks I just played don’t. 😛
What's the replication rate of Science and Nature journals, which are about as prestigious as they come? (Very bad)
How critical is it to have at least one "top flite" journal on your CV when applying for academic jobs? Or, at least in the US, NIH/NSF grants?
One does not have to be cynical to realize that well intentioned, but ultimately wrong, work that is in a timely/sexy subject will move through the publication system faster than a dull, negative, replication study. Although I should correct myself because the latter has become popular.
John Ioannidis is well worth your while. A bit depressing, but his work is at the vanguard of a critically important self-rectification of how the sausage of science is done.
And I haven't really found a paper in auditory perception that doesn't break a number of scientific sins, methodology and in analysis. To the point that I'm close to "baby and the bathwater" everything I've read, both that suggest people are deaf as rocks (Moran) and able to differentiate between 44.1 and higher bitrates.
If you're wondering if I'm defending Mark, I (shudder) got really mad at him when I did a heavy lit review in this world a few years ago because the lit did not back up his assertions. We've both gotten a bit more moderate over the years.
I have had difficulties to figure out what you were doing, and whether you know what you are doing or not 😀 So you use DSP (separate dsp or yamaha own?) to cross passive two way speaker over a (how many?) sub. The delay is an acoustic delay, not absolute phase. This is to ensure that each speaker being crossed over have 'equal' or calibrated distance to listening position.
It is good if you measure your room (rew or dirac) because this way you will learn some basics (which won't be easy if it is your first time) that you seemed to have missed. Without a mic/measurement, what you do with the dsp is trial and error. You rely on your ears to make changes to the dsp settings. Most probably it is a miss than a hit.
You should turn off your yamaha dsp if you use dedicated dsp like miniDSP.
Using miniDSP, without microphone for room EQ, you can manually set gain, slope, acoustic delay, EQ, etc. using assumptions of your speaker response and room response with using ears.
Using miniDSP+mic, you can accurately set EQ as you know the speaker+room response (which is not flat).
Using yamaha dsp is simpler because the 'software' for dsp and mic are both by yamaha and inside the receiver.
Jakob, it's been a while since I read it, but if I'm remembering correctly, big extrapolations from a small n and only one method of testing the hypothesis were the big two (and are essentially universal). I'd have to read it again after building up to my usual state of discontent with academic publications. 😉
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist (or any abx testing) to figure out I know not what I do! 😀
I suppose I should just take the advice of several here and enjoy the fact I have the ability to get where I’m at.......trying to figure it out is kindly taking away from the enjoyment, I’ve learned enough to satisfy that I’m not just ‘hearing things’.
I’m gonna give it rest for awhile (my parasound is at the shop till August) I’ve still got to build my new speakers and move the whole setup to a different room......basically starting over. So I might as well wait till then before scratching my behind raw.😛
But to answer some of your questions.....Yamaha dsp to (dual) sub, (actually to a seperate amp) if you shut the ypao off it defaults to 100hz lp (I need 60hz) then custom passive xo on mains.
And I did let the yammie do it’s mic measurement and still had to tweak it.....now that you mention the delay, chorus effect is a type of delay.
Delay and phase go hand in hand and I did read somewhere that the Yamaha ‘distance’ does affect phase.....and after sampling some chorus effects earlier I really believe what I’m experiencing is all related.
Thanks, Bob
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Sounds like you have got slightly too much of ‘almost close but no cigar’ type of signal processing, and it’s pretty good that you’ve got this far to figure it out by ears alone. It can take a long time sometimes to dial in a set up.
ToS
Sounds more like I’ve got a pretty good working hypothesis.
And actually the way it is right now is pretty dang good. The ASMR or ‘tingle factor’ (for lack of better words) is still there although not as intense.....it seems more evenly spread about.
The only difference is the subs are 180 out of phase and were re-dialed in the distance setting.
Why is it 180 out?.....before I sent the HINT for warranty repair I found its analog lp liked it better that way compared to the yammie it replaced.....forgot and didn’t switch it back (yammie is back in place) and found a sweeter spot in the dsp the way it was......left it there.
So this was really more a quest to understand and label what’s going on to maybe make it easier to repeat in the future.
Too much happening at once!
But definately have a better handle on it thanks to you fellers.....and hope to figure it out more when putting together everything in its new configuration.
Bob
And actually the way it is right now is pretty dang good. The ASMR or ‘tingle factor’ (for lack of better words) is still there although not as intense.....it seems more evenly spread about.
The only difference is the subs are 180 out of phase and were re-dialed in the distance setting.
Why is it 180 out?.....before I sent the HINT for warranty repair I found its analog lp liked it better that way compared to the yammie it replaced.....forgot and didn’t switch it back (yammie is back in place) and found a sweeter spot in the dsp the way it was......left it there.
So this was really more a quest to understand and label what’s going on to maybe make it easier to repeat in the future.
Too much happening at once!
But definately have a better handle on it thanks to you fellers.....and hope to figure it out more when putting together everything in its new configuration.
Bob
Hah! I am cleaning out the garage and I found this old test circuit for capacitor DA. Its only about 30-40 years ago! 🙂
maybe can do some further work with it now.
THx-RNMarsh
maybe can do some further work with it now.
THx-RNMarsh
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