If by source you mean the recording, the electrical signal, then accuracy upto the speaker terminals is "job done" after that it's anybody's guess due to speaker, room and hearing nonlinearities.
If by source you mean the acoustic event, if there was one, or what the mixing engineer heard at his desk, then it's impossible to know.
I mean in this comparison case, a certain (well recorded track) played on a system capable of reproducing what it’s fed vs the same track played on a system set up to better known ‘preferences’
Thanks Pavel,
So basically a trained ear holds more water.....makes perfect sense to me.
Of course someone’s gonna come around questioning how many cc’s of water that ear actually holds! 😀
What was once old is again new....or something like that!
A lot can be learned from your beginnings.
Then "perfect accuracy" doesn't mean much I'm afraid. If you were looking to see what the general public preferred, then you'd have to take the speakers, the room at least, out of the equation, in other words do some kind of comparison with headphones would probably be best, but, who cares anyway? Apologies to all those who are in the business.
😀
Do-you think I'm one of those ?
Like you, and for the same kind of reasons, of course, I use GNFB to reduce the distortion level numbers in my designs.
But, first, I try to reduce distortion in the open loop. As you, I suppose ?
And, if I was able to design an amp good enough with no global feedback, with all the advantages it provides, I will do-it.
I have not the slightest position about the bad or good effects of GNFB on our listening experiences. So, no point of view. Never made (my fault) serious explorations on this matter.
On the contrary, have-you read, in my answer to Dan, the kind of question I ask myself about this subject ? Why don't you comment those, instead ?
You seems, may-be it is a personal phantasm ? more pure technically oriented than I am, as i consider, in audio, listening as the "judge of peace".
That can be explained by my experience as a sound engineer.
We are both situated in between the pure measurements and pure subjective listenings extremes.
Who is in the right middle ? I don't know and don't care: Everybody is free chose its seat in a movie theater when the hall is empty.
But it seems obvious, insulting ? that each one that chose a seat in the extreme sides, first or last row, is a moron.
What to say else when he tries to impose-you its stupid practice ?
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If all things are the same.....room, speakers, gear ....etc
Just a different portrayal of playback......With DSP it shouldn’t be hard to figure out preferences in a general sense.
But like you say it really doesn’t matter.....sometimes I drift off on tangents!😛
When some of us expresses a personal preference, why do some feel compelled to ask for proof or evidence ?
Are they judges or prosecutors of any court ? Have we committed some crime ?
Are they judges or prosecutors of any court ? Have we committed some crime ?
Is that what I wrote?
Why don't you use actual quotes when claiming that I claimed *** like I quoted yours and mmerrill99's posts shown here.
Two of them are in audio business but one isn't (to my knowledge) but still posts like the two. I wonder why..., unless my "knowledge" was wrong.
You didn´t tell the truth when redefining the "original message".
Come on, using the post in which he was sidestepping as "proof" that he was not sidestepping because the topic he wants to avoid wasn´t included is surely an innovative way of bending the truth. 😎
Friends of surrealism have to admire the effort......
You mean, following your own advice wrt "crash courses" is not worth considering; seriously ?
How about a little psychology? 😉 The Narcissist's Dilemma: They Can Dish It Out, But... | Psychology Today UK
1- You are answering to someone that is constantly aggressive, and looking for controversy, doing personal attacks.
2- Talking about a category of people, as a generality, is not insulting someone in particular. A huge difference.
3- You have the friends you deserve. On my side, I cannot understand your hostility against me, while I never attacked-you. On the contrary, I held you in high esteem. You will understand that this is no longer the case.
EOT for me on this controversy. Have a good life.
I am retired from an non-audio-related career. Have no need and no desire to be working or in business. I give away my findings for free so that diy'ers hopefully can make better dacs. Probably, what I have said/described for free has influenced some commercial designs at least a little. I get no compensation of any kind for that or anything else.
However, although I have a fair amount of hearing loss, I learned how to listen a long time ago, much like what PMA describes for the symphony member. I listen for small faults in performance, recording, and reproduction. In the frequency range I can still hear, I can hear pretty low level distortion by listening for IMD symptoms when multiple frequencies are present, such as during vocal harmonies.
It is obvious that some people hear, or more correctly, listen for little flaws and may be quite skilled at it, and that other people don't. For instance, the guy claiming to have a -290dB distortion amp (or whatever the number is) is someone I talked to offline before. It became evident in our written conversation he had no clue about measurement. So, I thought maybe he could listen, and I sent him some test files to differentiate. Bottom line, the unfortunate fellow can't measure or listen. When I tried to explain about listening he couldn't accept there was anything he couldn't hear. He said he had his hearing tested and could hear a mosquito flying, so he could hear any that was there. I tried to tell him it has nothing to do with perfect hearing, it is a skill that the brain has to learn. For an analogy I sent him pictures of optical illusions and told him learning how to easily switch between seeing one thing or another has nothing to do with perfect 20-20 vs 20-15 vision. He couldn't see both or all the optical illusions, much less switch between them at will. We both decided we weren't getting anywhere and ceased talking. That was a few months before the -290dB distortion thread started. In case anyone is interested, illusions below.
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Better in what way? Even cheap DACs these days perform better than what people can hear, including you. If you mean better in measurements, OK, that can be used as status symbol or bragging right but still well beyond our hearing limits.
You often accuse others of committing actions that didn't exist outside of your own mind.
Thanks, Mark (including for your DAC help ;-)
I think that a painter will not see the "illusions" based on perspective flaws in those images, and that people that are educated in a language that is read from right to left, will not see the "first recognized subject" in the images than us ?
Yes it dawned on me after getting all the images except A and F , that my blueprint/drafting skills weren’t allowing me to see anything other than how it was drawn......I wondered then if it’s hard for a EE to hear things that they were trained didn’t exist?
Where us ‘simple folk’ can hear it in different ways like those drawings.
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