Are you serious? You can verify it easily via CRC / checksum / hash. There is at least one massive database to compare to as well. Even if you had a sample get read incorrectly what do you think it sounds like? Have you not ever listened to a scratched CD?
AccurateRip - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase
I still think the majority of any differences we hear between media is to do with the recording, and the fiddling that goes on in getting it from tape ( or digital if a modern recording) into the final saleable product. Case in point is Beethoven’s 5th (DG BPO von Karajan recording). I have it on vinyl from a small label and I have the DG CD set. The vinyl is better - the CD sounds compressed and I suspect there are some ‘overs’ on crescendos.
I also did a comparison years ago between vinyl and CD on Jeff Buckley’s ‘Grace’ and the vinyl was enter with a wider sound stage etc (I was playing it through a Marantz Integrated).
I have other vinyls that are crap as well eg Joan Armatrading - the CD is better.
There’s some seriously good resources on Hydrogenaudio.
I also did a comparison years ago between vinyl and CD on Jeff Buckley’s ‘Grace’ and the vinyl was enter with a wider sound stage etc (I was playing it through a Marantz Integrated).
I have other vinyls that are crap as well eg Joan Armatrading - the CD is better.
There’s some seriously good resources on Hydrogenaudio.
Yes, exactly. Most CDs were ruined in mastering. The vinyl or SACD releases often don’t have the same level of compression. A lot of the remastered CD releases of late 80s / early 90s popular albums aren’t too much better; more compression and some increased low end. I maintain this is the single biggest reason people prefer vinyl. It’s not that redbook is deficient, the engineers are/were.
We’ve finally started getting away from gross clipping thanks to smarter software, but most mainstream music is still sitting near 0 dB in digital formats.
I had a Depeche Mode hybrid SACD a long time ago. The Redbook layer sounded noticeably different. There was also some video content which sounded basically identical to the SACD layer. It was 3 to 6 dB less hot on average than the same song on the Redbook layer of the disc or something around that.
I think this is one reason why HDCD seemed to be well received despite the fact that it never caught on. I think I had a couple HDCDs, Tool Lateralus and Porcupine Tree In Absentia. Both sound okay compared to contemporaries. Not quite as compressed and full of clipping.
We’ve finally started getting away from gross clipping thanks to smarter software, but most mainstream music is still sitting near 0 dB in digital formats.
I had a Depeche Mode hybrid SACD a long time ago. The Redbook layer sounded noticeably different. There was also some video content which sounded basically identical to the SACD layer. It was 3 to 6 dB less hot on average than the same song on the Redbook layer of the disc or something around that.
I think this is one reason why HDCD seemed to be well received despite the fact that it never caught on. I think I had a couple HDCDs, Tool Lateralus and Porcupine Tree In Absentia. Both sound okay compared to contemporaries. Not quite as compressed and full of clipping.
Last edited:
You made a specific claim and it is your obligation to bring the evidence; it´s that simple.
Which simply is sidestepping; if somebody´s statement fits your personal belief it obviously doesn´t matter if he is in the audio business; if someone´s statements are contrary to your personal belief it must be so because he is in the "audio business" .
Anyway, where is the problem if a doctor talk about medicine on a medical forum ?
Paranoia sometimes takes strange forms. There is a movie that talk of this case: "She see dwarves everywhere".
Different company. The one we mentioned is in New Jersey and Merrill isn't his last name.
Based on which listening test?
Is there any description on what kind of comparison that would be?
Yep. This is exactly the tactic that irritates the hell out of me. There are only two options here:
1. You disagree with the original statement. Since this is common knowledge, a widely accepted fact, and also is in concordance with the basic laws of physics, the burden is on you to prove otherwise. Come up with facts, numbers, etc... and stop beating around the bush.
2. You don't disagree with the original statement. Then you are simply nitpicking and deflecting to obfuscate the subject. Anyway, the burden is still on you to prove that speaker and room acoustics may not be the bottleneck in audio reproduction.
Pathological (Wavac class) cases excluded, of course.
Last edited:
The link you posted in an attempt to counter my post is not even the forum page. Deliberately linking further away from the source noted.
Personal belief? Which part of "have been demonstrated in double blind tests." don't you understand? 🙄
He's a statistician, he can't help it, it's like an affliction, if he said anything for definite he might be wrong. 😱 You're not the only one it irritates, I've asked him to get off the fence before now, to no avail, a bit like asking for a listening test protocol, which I'm sure he could provide with no effort whatsoever. (edit: ok, very little)
Last edited:
Surely I´m not the only one who notes that you still did not provide the evidence for your claim. 😉
"Deliberately"? Mhm, as I´m confident that the event you have mentioned only happened in your fantasy, I simply can´t act "deliberately". But anyway pointing to the main page of that site is usually the best way to avoid failed (deep)links in the future.
That surely wasn´t the point; in the next days i´ll post a list with claims/statements that you somehow didn´t back up with facts........
Please, you are not stupid.
Sidestepping is the tactic evenharmonics is traditionally using when it gets difficult for him to answer. In this case we were not discussing the "original statement" ; instead i was pointing to the fact that he uses the line "is in the audio business" as ad hominem whenever someone posts contrary to his personal beliefs.
Cargo-science-cult behavior par excellence......
No, I'm not. In the original post you quoted there is nothing, not even an allusion, about you belonging to an audio business operation, it's all in your head. You simply nitpicked on his (otherwise entirely justified) comment. Your comment is a perfect example of ad hominem attack - instead of addressing his statement you make comments on personal (beliefs, etc...) matters.
Is it now clear what deflecting and obfuscating means?
Attachments
One of the tactics those pro shills use is to accuse others of doing what they do. 😉
The original statement i responded to,was this one:
As i quoted his post in my answer, i wonder how you managed to miss it.....
Btw, the evidence to back up your claim is still missing.....
I´m sure there is a version of reality where you two guys are right, but unfortunately it is not this one.
The surprising thing is that you both are constantly claiming/stating things that are easily refuted by citing posts from this forum, sometimes years, sometimes just weeks or even days ago.....
Sometimes I am thinking what about is the high end audio, except for highest price.
The components -
- do not have the lowest possible distortion,
- do not have the lowest noise,
- do not have the highest possible slew rate,
- do not have the widest frequency range,
- do not have the best possible S/N ratio,
- do not have the highest power,
- and do not have a combination of previous parameters, as would be expected from a "high end" product.
So, what is the rest? Silver wires, special switches, resistor brands etc.? If the best parameters are just missing, there must be something to speak about, and that's it.
The components -
- do not have the lowest possible distortion,
- do not have the lowest noise,
- do not have the highest possible slew rate,
- do not have the widest frequency range,
- do not have the best possible S/N ratio,
- do not have the highest power,
- and do not have a combination of previous parameters, as would be expected from a "high end" product.
So, what is the rest? Silver wires, special switches, resistor brands etc.? If the best parameters are just missing, there must be something to speak about, and that's it.
Oh sometimes they had the lowest possible distortion (at their time), some had a combination from several from your list, but often it is not the hunt for the best technical product, but the product bringing the most "fun/pleasure" for customers need.
Differences between humans are quite large - i´m sure we´ve mentioned that ..uhm...quite often in the past, so i´m a bit wondering why you bring it up again.....
Differences between humans are quite large - i´m sure we´ve mentioned that ..uhm...quite often in the past, so i´m a bit wondering why you bring it up again.....
You mean the most marketing. Thats what hi-end audio do have. And theres plenty of suckers out there with more money than brains.
It’s fairly obvious everything in life can benefit from premium parts/ingredients.....premium cost more money.
Some prey upon ones that ‘think with their wallet’ by offering the same crap in a better wrapper along with a giant line of BS....but are we to assume just from that behavior that nobody offers a better product?
To listen to some on here is to believe everything sounds the same regardless of quality?
Some prey upon ones that ‘think with their wallet’ by offering the same crap in a better wrapper along with a giant line of BS....but are we to assume just from that behavior that nobody offers a better product?
To listen to some on here is to believe everything sounds the same regardless of quality?
Classic Syn08.
No ones opinions count - except yours of course. Luckily I've learnt not to take you too seriously.
😀
- Status
- Not open for further replies.