Reminds me of the companies that patent genes they discovered in peoples DNA or in plants etc.
What happened to that? Hopefully the whole notion of taking genetic material and using it for financial gain without any compensation and/or permission to do so was kicked into touch.
I thought the whole inductance thing rested on loop area. No return path, no loop and therefore no inductance.
Now there's a cracking idea for a new speaker cable.
Or you need, for example, to redefine the inductance as the ratio of the flux developed in the region bounded by lines perpendicular to the beginning and end of the wire. Rosa [1] did this over 100 years ago.
There is not much to do except such tricks since otherwise any attempt to extrapolate the loop inductance to infinite geometries leads to divergent values.
[1] E.B. Rosa, "The Self and Mutual Inductances of Linear Conductors", Bulletin of the Bureau of Standards, Vol.4, No.2, 1908, pp. 301
I was talking more about the fundamental concept of inductance./
However, even in a capacitor, for the leads to have inductance, you must have a loop.
Interesting. So what if the loop area was infinite and the wire resistance zero?
Ahh, we hit the speed of light wall.
You lost me there, some things are not subject to opinion and some are nothing but.
A dozen talented artists could sit in the same spot and produce what they see. Chances are I would prefer any of them to a UHD photo perfect representation.
There is no loop in radio waves ?
Loops are everywhere, even in this forum ;-)
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well...we can buy roast poppy as food everywhere in my country and there's barely 10 acres of poppy crops in the whole country because of the papers and licenses you need to hold to be allowed to do it as it is considered a potential crop for opiates .So we're just buying it from Afghanistan, Pakistan and other war zones while forbidding our people to make money out of it...They even forbid a variant of local cannabis which is used for centuries to make brooms and some delicious traditional cakes from the seeds .They even arrested an 87 years old woman a few years ago for having 10 square meters of that plant in her back garden ...It wasn't ever used as a drug plant as it has like 0.2...0.3% of the concentration of the drugs found naturally in indian cannabis and anyway you don't see people taking drugs in the country side other than acohol...yet nobody bans tobaco or acohol as the government get most of the money out of it through taxation.
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Well, everybody seems to have their own opinion about wires, both connecting and speaker. Of course, like everybody else, I started out with zip cord, first 18ga, as it was the most common, and then 16ga, when I had to wire speakers in houses. This was the '60's. Then in 1970, I found that the GD liked to use 14 ga Belden stranded cable, so I switched to it. This went OK for a few years, I then owned K-horns, but there was this article, I believe it was from Jean Hiraga, in L'Audiophile that claimed big differences in speaker cables. In one case he could make a bell ring with one cable, and not with another. Still, nothing new in the speaker cable front.
However, in 1978, when I actually met Jean Hiraga, but also went to a very hi end audio store where my JC-2 was being demonstrated, I found myself wanting to take back a memento of my trip, so I looked around for something I could carry in my baggage. First, I found that phono cartridges actually were MORE EXPENSIVE in Japan than the USA, even Japanese ones, so that was out. Then I saw a meter length of solid silver coax cable for $30! Can any of you imagine paying so much for a meter length of cable at that time? '-) Still, it fit in my suitcase, so I bought it and took it home. THEN, for years I puzzled over WHY this cable sounded so bright? I couldn't measure anything, so I passed it over to a hi fi dealer for an independent opinion, and they thought it was bright sounding too: Too bright! What a concept, something that I could not measure, sounding different? There are lots of experiences like this, so I use better than common hardware store cables, including Kimber with my Met 7's, front, Monster with my Met 7's rear, and Cardas (Enid Lumley's former personal cable) for my serious listening Wilson Sasha speakers. I will never go back to zip cord.
However, in 1978, when I actually met Jean Hiraga, but also went to a very hi end audio store where my JC-2 was being demonstrated, I found myself wanting to take back a memento of my trip, so I looked around for something I could carry in my baggage. First, I found that phono cartridges actually were MORE EXPENSIVE in Japan than the USA, even Japanese ones, so that was out. Then I saw a meter length of solid silver coax cable for $30! Can any of you imagine paying so much for a meter length of cable at that time? '-) Still, it fit in my suitcase, so I bought it and took it home. THEN, for years I puzzled over WHY this cable sounded so bright? I couldn't measure anything, so I passed it over to a hi fi dealer for an independent opinion, and they thought it was bright sounding too: Too bright! What a concept, something that I could not measure, sounding different? There are lots of experiences like this, so I use better than common hardware store cables, including Kimber with my Met 7's, front, Monster with my Met 7's rear, and Cardas (Enid Lumley's former personal cable) for my serious listening Wilson Sasha speakers. I will never go back to zip cord.
Bright means shiny too, right? You could say that the silver cable sounded so shiny
You just need to wait some years until the silver sounds a little bit dull or matte.
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JN
I am shocked you don't understand the importance of calculating the inductance of a single conductor! Why that is the basis for flux capacitors!
To me the discussion at hand is confused by applying inappropriate models to the issues at hand
For example in AC power distribution skin effect does limit conductor size versus efficiency. Simply put there is an amperage maximum you can conduct with a wire. To get around that issue power transmission steps up the voltage. Nothing new here, very old basics. The progress comes in how high the voltage can reach. At some point air will stop being an effective insulator, so multiple power lines must be used. Three phase power is another bit of kit used to transmit more power efficiently.
Losses of less than 10% are achieved and frequently 5%.
Now those practices are well known cable issues that have little bearing other than the most basic on audio cable.
By measurement high quality oxygen free (really just decent levels) wire does work better that the cheapest junk some folks peddle. (Lower resistance) Yes I have had "copper" wire where bits stuck to a magnet. Not surprisingly in hundred foot runs the sound quality was noticeably different.
I can't say less, because one guy thought it sounded better.
BTY one of my physics friends likes to mention Maxwell is right about 95% of the time for his areas of work. Which brings up the difference between theory and things such as transforms which are mathematically applied often to theory. Some things are perfect in their scope and application, others of course not.
I am shocked you don't understand the importance of calculating the inductance of a single conductor! Why that is the basis for flux capacitors!
To me the discussion at hand is confused by applying inappropriate models to the issues at hand
For example in AC power distribution skin effect does limit conductor size versus efficiency. Simply put there is an amperage maximum you can conduct with a wire. To get around that issue power transmission steps up the voltage. Nothing new here, very old basics. The progress comes in how high the voltage can reach. At some point air will stop being an effective insulator, so multiple power lines must be used. Three phase power is another bit of kit used to transmit more power efficiently.
Losses of less than 10% are achieved and frequently 5%.
Now those practices are well known cable issues that have little bearing other than the most basic on audio cable.
By measurement high quality oxygen free (really just decent levels) wire does work better that the cheapest junk some folks peddle. (Lower resistance) Yes I have had "copper" wire where bits stuck to a magnet. Not surprisingly in hundred foot runs the sound quality was noticeably different.
I can't say less, because one guy thought it sounded better.
BTY one of my physics friends likes to mention Maxwell is right about 95% of the time for his areas of work. Which brings up the difference between theory and things such as transforms which are mathematically applied often to theory. Some things are perfect in their scope and application, others of course not.
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Belden is making some great cables these days at the top end. They employ EE types who took physics and emag classes. This keeps them from making physics defying breakthroughs though.
But how can we do 10 Gbit/s 10GBASE-T networking over copper without physics defying breakthroughs like zero characteristic impedance, or even 99.9999999% OFC single crystal continuous cast.
I suspect we could run 10 gigabit over copper farther with some Bybee spintronics help.
Why ?
Be honest, John, I'm sure you didn't took the time to make extensive measurements about it. (As most of us).
If they are not the same, two cables never measure the same. If they do, buy a lottery ticket ;-)
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I mentioned this to a friend/customer; he liked the idea and wanted to try, and I said silver cables were not available commercially at that time. He said "This must be a joke?" and walked right over to the jeweller next door and had them pull fine silver (99.9%) strands. We then spent an afternoon dipping the strands in laquer and braiding them into cables. He was a happy camper!
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shhh!!!JN
I am shocked you don't understand the importance of calculating the inductance of a single conductor! Why that is the basis for flux capacitors!
the diameter of the conductor limits the maximum voltage the conductor can carry safely in air. The problem is that as the voltage increases, the voltage gradient in the air can exceed the air breakdown voltage. Dry air is about 50 volts per mil. Larger diameters reduce the air v gradient. Three phase power is another bit of kit used to transmit more power efficiently.
maxwell is right 100% of the time... If your friend thinks otherwise, he (she) is misapplying the equations. That is why my friend has no textbooks, he derives everything from the basic four, that way he knows it's correct.Which brings up the difference between theory and things such as transforms which are mathematically applied often to theory. Some things are perfect in their scope and application, others of course not.
Jn
The inductance value diverges when loop area->oo. No cigar, here's why:
The inductance L is defined in terms of the current I flowing through the system and W, the magnetic energy density which is proportional to B^2.
L=(2/I^2)*I(W*do) where I is the integral over the the entire domain O.
Considering B inside the conductor (increases linearly from zero in the center) and outside the conductor (decreases as 1/r), assuming a current source applied to the ends of the wire, and enforcing as a boundary condition the tangential component of the magnetic flux density zero on the exterior boundary, we could in principle calculate the inductance using the above formula. The magnetic energy decreases as 1/r^2 so one would think this makes the integral above converge when the domain expands to oo. Flashnews, it doesn't, the integral diverges, L->oo ( is actually proportional to ln(r) ), therefore the inductance L of a straight single wire is ill defined. So the classic definition of inductance does not apply to the single straight wire inductance.
Sorry jneutron if I messed something in the above, there's quite some time since I last used Mr. Maxwell's work.
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