What are you talking about, I don't understand how that's relevant?
300 MHz is not impressive anyway. A midrange MSO is 1.5GHz now.
If you want serious *audio* test equipment you should just buy an AP. I'm not sure what an 8, 10, or 12-bit oscilloscope is going to tell you? The initial post by Richard was about measuring distortion.
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Yes, speaker positioning in the room is everything.
There is a speaker setup method developed in the 90's by John Hunter of Sumiko Importers, which used to be in Berkeley, called M.A.S.T.E.R.S. It essentially follows the same method as one uses to properly focus a pair of binoculars. There is a specific setup disc that is used, and one goes about it in a very exact way. The aim is to take the two sound sources, speakers, and turn them into a single in-phase sound source. It is uncannily real.
I first heard this at an audio show some years ago. I stayed in the room for 2 or 3 hours trying to learn everything as well as how to do it. Over time I did learn how to set up speakers with this method. It takes a lot of time and patience as no one other than a professional is going to do this a hundred times to get real proficient at it.
This all sounds similar to the speaker setup mentioned above.
Samuel Groner characterized quite a few different op-amps, including the AD797, you can find it on his site (nanovolt.ch). It's still among the best, but it depends on the circuit configuration.
I believe that is the guy who did my friend's room. He spends days doing it. I forget the name but I need to look at his website.
Does it sound better? Yes. Sadly he told him to get AudioQuest cables and they seemed to have added a fatigue factor
I can and do build a smarter cable loom than that. Shameless plug time: I'm on GB #4 for the Fo-Felix, incase any of you wanted some boards but didn't get on the first 3.
Does he still use Ballad of a Runaway Horse as the set up disc?
I'm essentially self taught, but I learned from a guy who John taught long ago.
Once you've heard speakers set this way, it's all over.
When is he coming to do yours?
Of course since you mentioned that he told how to do it, get practicing. And just keep at it.
Probably not, but it has been almost 30yr., and you know I'm not a numbers guy for audio anyway.
Because you don't need more than a 100MHz oscilloscope, a voltmeter and a distorsiomètre to design and tune an analog gear for audio.
100MHz scope can be just scraping by for dacs, some of which run on 100MHz clocks.
A 100 MHz scope probably won’t tell you anything useful about a clock, other than if it’s running or not. Consider the edge rates and how much bandwidth you need to preserve the waveform. Pretty much all of the scopes for signal integrity work are in the 2+ GHz range.
Which of the three circulating (quite different in what to hear for) “versions” convey what you have experienced (or none of them)?
http://www.hifi.ir/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/master-set.pdf
The Sumiko setup | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!
Master Set speaker set up
Here are some other less mystique speaker placement methods
The Sumiko setup | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!
There was also an old article in AudioXpress, very detailed and informative but I can’t find a reference to it
George
The trick to follow such links when your posts-per-page setting isn't the default one is to use the 'Open link in new private window' feature - at least that's what its called on Firefox. Then you'll get the default number of posts per page (as cookies are ignored) and all is dandy. Until you need to view an attachment that is, then you have to log in.....
There are some non functional links there. I retrieved the working links below
Thiele
THIEL
Genesis
https://web.archive.org/web/2017022...paper/Genesis_Loudspeaker_Setup_Procedure.pdf
Audio Physic
[audio physic] - no loss of fine detail
Cardas
https://web.archive.org/web/20120227104020/http://www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf
Evolution Acoustics
http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/support/speaker-placement/
George
Hi George,
FWIW, I wrote the two links that say Master Set. I had nothing to do with the What's Best Forum links.
Master Set is a moniker named by Rod Tomson of Soundings HiFi in Denver Colorado. Rod taught me all that I know about this speaker set up method. He is an absolute master of doing it. Rod learned from John Hunter.
Before I learned about John Hunter's method, call it what you will, I used the audio physic method and the Cardas method for setting speakers in a room. While both Joachim Gerhard and George Cardas are very smart, their speaker set up methods will leave you very frustrated in the end.
I am unfamiliar with the other linked methods.
What you get with John Hunter's method is the creation of a single sound source from two speakers. The sound becomes natural sound as heard by musicians playing music. The sound of the music stays stable in the room as you move around the room. If the music moves with you when you move around the room, or even move your head a little, you do not have a single sound source of the music.
It's all analogous to focusing binoculars. When done perfectly you get a perfect image. It's not always easy to get that with binoculars. Same with setting up speakers.
Because I had some recent changes in system and room furnishings, I had to do speaker set up all over again this week. I've spent parts of 3 days on this. It takes a lot of patience and a lot of time to get it right. I have a difficult room. But it can be done.
FWIW, I wrote the two links that say Master Set. I had nothing to do with the What's Best Forum links.
Master Set is a moniker named by Rod Tomson of Soundings HiFi in Denver Colorado. Rod taught me all that I know about this speaker set up method. He is an absolute master of doing it. Rod learned from John Hunter.
Before I learned about John Hunter's method, call it what you will, I used the audio physic method and the Cardas method for setting speakers in a room. While both Joachim Gerhard and George Cardas are very smart, their speaker set up methods will leave you very frustrated in the end.
I am unfamiliar with the other linked methods.
What you get with John Hunter's method is the creation of a single sound source from two speakers. The sound becomes natural sound as heard by musicians playing music. The sound of the music stays stable in the room as you move around the room. If the music moves with you when you move around the room, or even move your head a little, you do not have a single sound source of the music.
It's all analogous to focusing binoculars. When done perfectly you get a perfect image. It's not always easy to get that with binoculars. Same with setting up speakers.
Because I had some recent changes in system and room furnishings, I had to do speaker set up all over again this week. I've spent parts of 3 days on this. It takes a lot of patience and a lot of time to get it right. I have a difficult room. But it can be done.
Argumentative ?
I design current feedback amplifiers since 4 decades and said 300MHz in my first post, but, really, I think 100 is large enough to work and ensure no instability IMHO.
Most of the old geezer of my kind started their career with 10MHz and we did the Job.
Fortunately, the analog oscillos did not have a brick wall filter!
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