John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

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Yep one of Mostek's trade secrets turned out to be clever ordering of the 256 most critical "flashes" on the photomask-making magtape. In the old days before redundancy, every single one of the 128 voltage comparator circuits on the chip had to work perfectly, with zero offset voltage and full A-to-D action inside the fixed timing window. The way to get that every time was to make sure the two vitally important polysilicon gate rectangles, were EXACTLY the desired size (and were EXACTLY identical to each other). Mostek found that finagling with the setting of the "blades" on the Perkin Elmer mask making machine, not just what you do but when you do it, gave significantly better control of rectangle size on the mask. Better masks print better polysilicon gate rectangles on the chip, which gave tighter control of offset voltage and amplification speed, which gave higher yield and faster speed grades. Which equals much greater profit.

The best part is: you can't see this when you look at a finished chip under the microscope. You just see a bunch of rectangles printed in polysilicon. You have no way of knowing in what order they were laid down on the photomasks. If you happen to observe that those rectangles are well controlled, unusually well controlled, you are left to guess how the hell that could be.
 
Yep one of Mostek's trade secrets turned out to be clever ordering of the 256 most critical "flashes" on the photomask-making magtape.

Did you ever hear the story about the one machinist in the world that could make the lead screws for steppers (this is the old days)? It always sounded like possible folklore to me.

We did acquire Resistor Products in Rochester to get their crusty old chemist that had the secret sauce for making thin film deposition targets. Our thin film was amazing for 70's technology, Roger said 17ppm/degree and 17ppm/degree it was.
 
Agreed, Jakob. Although we cannot know if a specific test result was flawed, as you point out the technique certainly is. The results of our multiple tests conclusively showed that for relatively minor differences our sight takes precedence over our ears. There was no doubt or confusion in the test results. Having been there for the tests I can state with the minor differences heard between most quality amplifiers operating below clipping our sight cues trump our aural cues. This doesn't mean the minor differences are unimportant, on the contrary these differences define the SOTA and are likely the reason most of us joined this forum in the first place. The test results do however dismiss sighted testing as a valid technique to determine minor differences.

It has been established that sighted listening has an affect to aural perception by the very people who espouse it, as well as by testing I was witness to. I was under the impression that our goal was superior aural performance. Considering these facts I don't understand why anyone would still want to consider sighted preference testing a valid technique to determine purely aural performance. How about this idea: faux front panels so those preferring sighted testing could still do so, but both amplifiers would look the same. What do you think the results would be then?

It would be interesting to determine the threshold for certain types of differences (amplitude, freq response, distortion) by conducting sighted tests while increasing the amount of difference between sources until the aural cues outweighed the visual cues... which sounds like a huge PITA considering the possible confounding factors which we found plague ABX testing (repetition, fatigue, controlling light, temperature, time of day, belly filling factor...) and which are why I don't blindly accept ABX. And the result of these tests would be a comparison (in dB for each factor) of the relative precedence of visual stimulus over aural stimulus. Kind of interesting from a physiological viewpoint, but not terribly relevant to understanding aural performance of different circuit topologies...which is why I joined this group...

After having been unfortunately involved in many exhausting testing experiences, I now find the best way to evaluate components is ~30 minute relaxed listening sessions with a variety of music to excite system weaknesses in a dimly lit room I am familiar with. If I hear something I want to compare, I iterate between different components until I am satisfied the difference exists or does not and move on. If the difference is so small I cannot decide if it actually exists then the difference is unimportant and I get on with life. It does not matter to me nor does it make me inferior if someone else could hear that difference, the music in my head comes through my hearing apparatus not theirs. I know of no other more revealing technique if what I am interested in is actual aural performance minus all the other BS.

My vote would be to move on to other, more electronic topics like John just posted and agreeing to listening in dimly lit rooms of our choice.

Just my 2¢ worth,
Howie

I agree completely!! I also think listening over many weeks to lots of different music in a relaxed manner helps to tease out issues which are not point issues, more holistic impressions
 
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So to sum up:
1. you know that double-blind tests produce lots of false negatives, in that differences which can clearly be heard in sighted tests cannot be heard in DBT
No you have the wrong definition of false negative - it is not hearing something which is actually different (by measurement or by other blind tests which have established this)
2. we know that sighted tests produce lots of false positives, in that differences between A and A can be clearly heard when B is seen but A is heard
3. our explanation is that DBT generally finds exactly what existing psychoacoustics and circuit theory says it should find - but we are open to being surprised
4. your explanation is that there are subtle issues (some even claim new physics) which existing knowledge either denies or does not take proper account of - but you are puzzled that these issues never seem to appear in less demanding applications such as telecommunications or gravity waves

Should we just agree to ignore each others tests?
Again, no, the explanation is that Foobar ABX is an insensitive test - other properly conducted blind tests conducted by people experienced in perceptual testing tend not to have the issues that home run ABX testing does. So your point 4 is incorrect - the explanation is that that particular ABX test is not a yardstick by which to judge audibility or not of small differences
 
If the difference is so small I cannot decide if it actually exists then the difference is unimportant and I get on with life. It does not matter to me nor does it make me inferior if someone else could hear that difference, the music in my head comes through my hearing apparatus not theirs. I know of no other more revealing technique if what I am interested in is actual aural performance minus all the other BS.

That sums it up, if folks think that means "I don't care" that's their problem.
 
Yes, I have designed condenser microphone electronics too. What I was referring to was the added complexity of the measurement microphone's power supply and exotic connector requirements. Most mikes can use some sort of phantom powering, but not the measurement B&K's that we started using 45 years ago. I had to build custom 200V, and 120V power supplies, on occasion. Too much for a typical recording studio to bother with, but we did the Boston Pops with a pair (actually three) of B&K Mikes with some success.

More nonsense. Designing mic electronics and recording with them is not the same thing. And studios have been using condensers with tube pre amps ( with all the extra complexity ) for ever. Some are still highly praised.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...u47-large-diaphragm-tube-condenser-microphone

And the 50 year old ones are worth more money.
Stop pretending you know recording.
 
Re time delay, how about speakers "all pass" linear distortion (time domain response), anyone dare to speak about time delays in properly designed electronics? You may test your ears on audibility of "all pass distortion".

Audibility of allpass phase distortion (test)

The Linkwitz Pluto active speakers that I built and use have an all-pass filter on the tweeter to introduce a slight time delay. The woofers fire straight up, and the tweeter is above the woofer but facing forward. If the acoustic center of the tweeter was above the center of the woofer, then sound waves from the tweeter (which has near 180 degree dispersion at low frequencies) would reflect off the woofer diaphragm and be modulated by the woofer motion, so SL moved the tweeter forward a few inches so it is even with the edge og the woofer surround, then put the all-pass filter on the tweeter to align it with the woofer!

What distorion? :)
 
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