On of the biggest 'ripoffs' I have been told is the price of the AD797. Why not do everybody a favor and sell them at cost? '-)
In my opinion, the AD797 is an excellent value when considered as a part of the total BOM cost of the non-audio products it's likely to be used in. It's a very high performing part.
A lot of the other stuff discussed recently... not so great in value or performance.
A lot of the other stuff discussed recently... not so great in value or performance.
I'm talking about the development-production cost of the AD797. Why isn't it $1.50 or so? Some IC's, like the earlier Harris devices DID have a high production cost, but the 797 shouldn't. It is just getting 'excess profit' from a well designed product, just like Scott is complaining about others doing.
Now, for the record, the 797 is an excellent product, quiet (others are essentially as quiet today, however) VERY low distortion, (probably below what the human ear really cares about), but great for measuring equipment, and reasonably fast (nothing to brag about). For measurement it is the best I have ever found, BUT for listening with the same noise level, other IC's at less than 1/2 the price of the 797 sound as good, are just as quiet, and just as fast. So why keep the high prices Scott?
I bring this out, because everybody likes to make a good living. I personally don't want to pay extra for MQA either, but I don't bad mouth the people who want to charge for it. If it is as good as TAS says, then it is 'revolutionary' and then it is worth paying an extra price for the R&D.
Now, for the record, the 797 is an excellent product, quiet (others are essentially as quiet today, however) VERY low distortion, (probably below what the human ear really cares about), but great for measuring equipment, and reasonably fast (nothing to brag about). For measurement it is the best I have ever found, BUT for listening with the same noise level, other IC's at less than 1/2 the price of the 797 sound as good, are just as quiet, and just as fast. So why keep the high prices Scott?
I bring this out, because everybody likes to make a good living. I personally don't want to pay extra for MQA either, but I don't bad mouth the people who want to charge for it. If it is as good as TAS says, then it is 'revolutionary' and then it is worth paying an extra price for the R&D.
The AD797 is a legitimate product.
MQA is garbage with no real technical superiority. Its main goal, as far as I can tell, is to recycle Meridian's R&D and a dead codec that the market already rejected (originally designed for DVD-A if I recall correctly). It's a pure DRM money grab and marketing exercise. It's still worse than lossless high res PCM files.
Since you don't understand digital audio, I am not surprised that you would believe their well-crafted pseudoscience.
MQA is garbage with no real technical superiority. Its main goal, as far as I can tell, is to recycle Meridian's R&D and a dead codec that the market already rejected (originally designed for DVD-A if I recall correctly). It's a pure DRM money grab and marketing exercise. It's still worse than lossless high res PCM files.
Since you don't understand digital audio, I am not surprised that you would believe their well-crafted pseudoscience.
I may have told you this already, but if not... there's a musician local to you named Matt Lorenz who builds everything out of junk (Cynthia says, "Objets trouvee!") and does a one-man-band thing. His work is remarkable, some incredible sounds out of tin pots, baby shoes, old bones, and sea shells. Musically, he might be one of the most interesting performers I've seen in years.
Just looked AD797 is $5.32 by the reel. Given its not a megavolume part and possibly on a smaller wafer size doesn't seem to bad. OK a pair of those adds $50 to the store price of an amplifier, but you have to pay IF you need what the chip offers.
Whether domestic audio needs that level of performance is of course another question...
Whether domestic audio needs that level of performance is of course another question...
Anyone here familiar with the McPherson circuit? Apparently a smart implementation of foldback current limiting, gradually shifting the dissipation burden to an R rather than the pass device.
Jan
Jan
What are the margins on Bentley's. It's unprofessional for you to put me on the spot when you know full well I have nothing to do with the prices.
I could care less about MQA, just bothered by the insinuated claim that it was "lossless". The third party studies speak for themselves.
(it is sad that we have to highlight the obvious)
George
I opened one up that I destroyed. Indeed there was a shiny bit of glass left so they clearly are based on smoke and mirrors.
As to price:
20P Analog AD797 AD797AR SMT Op Amp IC's Chip High End AR | eBay
Perhaps too good to be true.
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Last week I saw, at the Paragon store in Bangkok, a new Bentley for sale. The sales man said, with the import tax (about 50%) the price would be in dollars = $711,000. And that was for the V8 model... not the top line engine package (W12 twin-turbo). Only Kings/Queens and other forms of dictators can amass enough cash to buy a Bentley. Yes, there is a lot of profit in it. But then, it is at the top of the food chain.
-Richard
[not a king or dictator]
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Ed, you missed half of the fun. The magic smoke slipped through your fingers.😀
It seems to be a bit more pricey than the LM833 I regularly use.
But since it is single, it is actually double bit more pricey 😀😀
George
Richard, I suspect that they generally don't know that you drive a Bentley, I think that Scott is referring to Jack Bybee's Bentley, which he apparently resents as excessive. The best stuff that I can get or design for audio is also excessive in cost, AND I don't usually get to set the price either.
I am not concerned about whether Bob Stuart (first met and communicated with him 43 years ago) makes a few extra dollars for each Meridian sold.
What I am concerned with is the work of Dr.Peter Craven (who I independently met and communicated with 40 years ago) who is apparently behind this project. He is the hope for the future of digital, not you guys. I know this because I first visited him when he was at Oxford and his close associate was Michael Gerzon (one of the most brilliant and idealistic people I have ever met) and I spent time with both of them and their hi fi findings, already well developed over 40 years ago.
I care about: What sounds best, not what costs less.
If Bob Harley, editor of TAS, and owner of a similar hi fi reproduction system (we are even using the same ultra-tweeter) is enthusiastic about MQA, then I am going to give it a serious listen.
I hope he is right in his recommendation.
I am not concerned about whether Bob Stuart (first met and communicated with him 43 years ago) makes a few extra dollars for each Meridian sold.
What I am concerned with is the work of Dr.Peter Craven (who I independently met and communicated with 40 years ago) who is apparently behind this project. He is the hope for the future of digital, not you guys. I know this because I first visited him when he was at Oxford and his close associate was Michael Gerzon (one of the most brilliant and idealistic people I have ever met) and I spent time with both of them and their hi fi findings, already well developed over 40 years ago.
I care about: What sounds best, not what costs less.
If Bob Harley, editor of TAS, and owner of a similar hi fi reproduction system (we are even using the same ultra-tweeter) is enthusiastic about MQA, then I am going to give it a serious listen.
I hope he is right in his recommendation.
Concur Gerhard, here are some measurements for IF3602
Vp(A) Idss(A) Vp(B) Idss(B)
1)-0.88V 147mA -0.71V 147mA
2)-0.72V 106mA -0.67V 100mA
3)-0.22V 16.9mA -0.24V 13.1mA
4)-1.15V 215mA -1.12V 208mA
Oh, thanks, that broadens the data base 🙂
these are my first 4 pairs measured (screen dump from lab notes) :
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