As a simple demo of what I'm talking about, here's a rough phone recording of a brass orientated group busking, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn9nqspOcgU. Quick, is this the "real" thing, or a JBL M2 or other typical playback system doing the soundtrack?
I get your point Frank, obviously that was recorded live. Now that you say that yes on the earlier U-Tube video of the JBL speaker is sounded like a PA speaker. Not a very good representation of what can be done with a properly done two way system with a horn.
I think, to an extent, that describes the natural behaviour of conventional drivers too. However, seems Dicks has embraced this and made use of it, rather than trying to avoid it, or live with it. Interesting !jan.didden said:
I heard the M2 at AES a few years ago. An amazing sounding speaker, not a "PA speaker".
I was told to go listen to it by a couple very jaded pro audio people, not easily impressed folks.
Alan
I was told to go listen to it by a couple very jaded pro audio people, not easily impressed folks.
Alan
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Yes, I'm positive it can sound very impressive - so, the question is, when it doesn't good so good, why is that?
The Walsh is referenced in the patent iirc. The way I understand it is that the idea is similar but the implementation is different. I don't think the Walsh changes ops mode with frequency but is designed to act as a bending wave transducer in is working frequency range, while the DDD cameleons from pistonic to bending to another one I forget.
The reason I brought this up is to add another slant to the discussion on cone behaviour and breakup.
Jan
I think that is true, what I remember from talking to him, which was mid-80-ies last century (Man do I feel old when I type this ;-), that he had the idea to turn a disadvantage into an advantage.
Jan
Frank, I have a question for you.
Because you do as you do, I understand that you will by neccessity talk about models which were not so hot but were convinced to improve. On occasion, when something was mentioned, you were underwhelmed. I get all that.
But I would like to know what you were impressed with regarding loudspeakers, CD players and amps. Just a few examples will do nicely. Manufacturer and price of no consequence.
Because you do as you do, I understand that you will by neccessity talk about models which were not so hot but were convinced to improve. On occasion, when something was mentioned, you were underwhelmed. I get all that.
But I would like to know what you were impressed with regarding loudspeakers, CD players and amps. Just a few examples will do nicely. Manufacturer and price of no consequence.
Jan, these drivers are bound to fail and one of the reasons is that the resonances that occur above break up store energy which is released after the signal to the drivers has ended. I'd really like to see waterfalls of either the German Physiks or the Ohm Walsh. The latter has been reviewed by Stereophile, but without measurements. Anybody aware of something in the public domain, section www?
Yeah I don't know how good they objectively are. They have been selling for 30+ years; I even at one time saw a 5.1 surround system with 6 of those full range systems, at an RMAF. $ 100k + .
Jan
Jan
Dejan, I've already mentioned a few instances of units that in standard form have impressed me, in posts at various times. But I will repeat them again ... I would note that overall the standard has improved, it used to be that almost everything was a disappointment, but now I come across good'uns at times, 😉.
As source, music servers and good DACs tend to do better than players, and Lampizator and Weiss did well. The Swiss CH Precision CD player stood out, good also were AVM, BMC and MBL 1621/1611.
Amplifiers, the standout was Bryston 28BSST, also Technical Brain TDP-Zero - you'll like this, no GFB, superb square wave performance, and 19k/20k IMD, I was just looking it up a couple of hours ago! - also Viola Audio Lab., AVM, Magtech, BMC.
Loudspeakers I'm far more lenient towards, because their behaviour is very dependent on what's driving them - I've been impressed by MBL 101E, Magnepan MG3, Evolution Acoustics, Dynaudio.
As source, music servers and good DACs tend to do better than players, and Lampizator and Weiss did well. The Swiss CH Precision CD player stood out, good also were AVM, BMC and MBL 1621/1611.
Amplifiers, the standout was Bryston 28BSST, also Technical Brain TDP-Zero - you'll like this, no GFB, superb square wave performance, and 19k/20k IMD, I was just looking it up a couple of hours ago! - also Viola Audio Lab., AVM, Magtech, BMC.
Loudspeakers I'm far more lenient towards, because their behaviour is very dependent on what's driving them - I've been impressed by MBL 101E, Magnepan MG3, Evolution Acoustics, Dynaudio.
That video is gold, made my day, thanks for that.
I agree that YouTube videos are useful for evaluating systems, remotely as it were.
Those JBL's are seriously hot in the mid/highs, which can be ok if they are dead clean, but those JBL's also have really serious bark on a few notes...ear bleeding...fail.
Dan.
It is an awfully recorded and bad sounding live performance, what the point ?
This said, when you listen to live recordings (made by some cameras) of some hifi system playing, it is surprising how you can discriminate huge defects that you don't noticed by your ears alone. Cheated by the volume, or other pleasing artifacts ?
I can hear something very bad in the male voices in those JBL M2 whatever the place where the recordings was made. Nasal and distorted.
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