As I said before, almost every 16 bit (usually 44.1/48kHz) reproduction system manipulates the signal one more time, before it gets converted back to analog. Such system contains some form of DSP (!) - digital filter, upsampler etc.
With 16 bit input that DSP has less 'information' to calculate its output than with 24 bit input and might introduce yet more errors.
DSP/math guys, please correct me if I'm wrong.
See you are looking at two very different venues home short distances well shielded balanced cable low field emf etc . Pro audio long distances sometimes 100 meters plus with lots of lights using real voltage and current often a fair number of kw of lights with scr controllers generating a lot of noise broadcast over a medium spectrum of rf . So what is need in pro audio to over come a noisy rf field does not happen and thus not need to be used at home. And by running the line hot if you lose a bit of level down the line you still have lots to work with .Hope that helps.
Last edited:
The only ones left to get on side, are fools
and the ones owning/distributing/profiting from the Intellectual Property.Think about it, their IP, if it is on tape, has a limited life span, so a wise investor would want to preserve their IP forever. Minimal investment for your profitable IP. You being the investor, would you not want to preserve your IP in the best way possible? If your source IP is already hi-res digital, it is a BIG marketing game to distribute the IP in low res. Just so that you think one day that you will get the sucker customer to re purchase the IP again, so one has all the flavours, just like candies. = ridiculous greedy world.
So that is, Richard, me, Neil Young being on side, for hi-res audio distribution, at affordable prices, who else ...
Well I could just digitiize some of my fav LP's at 24/96, this time, but I better get a ultrasonic LP cleaner going first.
I request >0.1% thd+n(Sinad) at -60dBc, does 24b/96k get me to this target? or do we need some more/newer technology to do it?
Ok should have added the caveat that I was talking merely about RNM saying that domestic should use pro (as in studio) levels. For sound reinforcement I understand. I didn't want to get into the balanced vs single ended in domestic environment, just making the point that the 0dbFS=2V that good domestic digital equipment puts out does not put you at any disadvantage in the home.
For the ADS1232, the reported nonlinearity is around -104dB rel input.
Not very low for a 24bit converter but weighing scales -and measuring instruments in general industry-are tested and certified as complete systems, not components.
Thus, although an analog core unit may have excellent linearity figures, a complex digital measuring system based on ADC, far outperforms the system based on the analog core unit in terms of repeatability, reliability, noise immunity, short & long term stability (think of a wide body aircraft weighing system, or of laboratory grade calibrators).
I remember from reviewing the cal cert correction factors from ADC based calibrators like Fluke 5080, Ruska 7250 ect that the annual drift was minimal and always within the predicted (spec'ed) range.
It seem that code oriented testing is a hard way to quantise such measurements, the traditional way is closer to our understanding (more intuitive).
I am aware of the definite turn of treating 'testing' as 'measurement' (metrology territory)
Thanks for responding
George
It saddens me that this https://www.shopsfsymphony.org/shop/product.php?productid=2067 is not AFAIK available as an HD download. Superb performance and recording but to get HD you have to buy the SACD. Unless someone can find it elsewhere. It's well worth having in ones collection if you like classical at all.
mutter DRM mutter Sony.
mutter DRM mutter Sony.
Neither thank god. That's one of the most homoerotic images I've ever seen in audio.
I meant for it to be posted right after Richard's post about 32 bit downloads someday, but someone snuck one in. But it just sums up the whole "mine's bigger!" numbers games that people play.
se
Agreed that 2v for home will work for most people. Nelson Pass has said that there is too much gain in home system . I agree here with a DIY system the amount of power amp gain at lest for me is reduced leading to more signal to drive it . That what working for me . Your mileage may vary. Regards Billshurv.
Wouldn't dream of it. Love going there, but you have to admit it's not the best shape. Proms only moved there when the preferred venue was somewhat redesigned in the 1940s.
Well, I do! The member with DEQX setup, the first time I listened to it he had it on a very low level, so I asked him to up and up it - pretty soon we had reached the limits of adjustment - he has adjusted the gain chain so that that no clipping could occur at any time. The point being, that when you hear at realistic levels then the distortion artifacts are extremely obvious, and then if you start to drop the volume it's relatively easy to follow the sound of that "wrongness" still occurring. As an example of how one diagnoses, if that wrongness goes away at some point of steadily attenuating then it is most likely power supply related, or also possibly interference from mains current spikiness affecting other components.
Most times I hear the treble being wrong, it is just not convincing, it has a turgid, irksome, "hifi" quality about it - you can't increase the volume without that aspect becoming impossible to live with for any decent period of time. And unfortunately, nearly all the problems that beset audio setups have most impact in that area. As an extremely downmarket example of the process, my PC speakers - that people here love to laugh at, 😉 - had typical grotty sound to start with; but it also essentially had nothing glaringly wrong with it - a very promising sign! And the major issues were the usual suspects - cheap hardware in key areas, like connectors and potentiometers. So I bypassed all of these, every last one of them, and then gave the speakers a good thrashing - the downside of cheaper gear is that they always need to be conditioned heavily to reach a stable, and optimum state. Part of the story here is that the capacitors are pretty low grade, and need to be exercised strongly to perform well. Last step was to optimise the power feed to the computer and speaker internal amps, to minimise interference from this factor.
Doing this was sufficient for these little fellas to give a good account of themselves - a lot of material could be run at max volume without obvious problems - power supplies are still the biggest issue, the "wrong" material makes this obvious; but it's not worth putting in more effort, considering the overall balance of the situation.
Trouble is, nearly all systems are broke - especially the expensive ones!! A good dose of fixin' is exactly what they do need - the thing is to be able to "hear" the problems, which you may, or may not, be able to do something about ...As for cars, i used to be a mechanic back in the 1980's before i became a marine engineer. Believe me i've heard some crackers. It's making a 'going round' noise etc. A test drive usually helped, also i had a quite sophisticated Crypton engine tuner at my disposal which i was trained to use. Cause and effect Frank, just like in audio.
One more thing, if it ain't broke, don't fix it
The thinking's all wrong here, Richard - yet again, 😀 !! When digital doesn't sound good it's because something is not working right in that system. Don't chase goodness - eliminate badness!
When I first got brilliant sound, from "miserable" CD, 😛 - I went on a mad binge, checking out every type of system I could get a listen to, to see if that same quality would be replicated. With CD this never happened, they were uniformly either dreadful, or discarded a huge chunk of the sound to make themselves "nice" - in analogue it was all over the place, only a premium LP setup with Goldmund Reference TT, etc, made me say, aha!! ... you can hit the mark with vinyl too ..
I do agree, but after 45 years of Proms I've come to love its bouncy sound, better of course after the ceiling mushrooms (1965?) were added. I have found an area under a higher tier where the orchestral sound is very pleasing. To me.
you have a good head start on me. I took 30 years to get a round tuit so I had no excuse not to go 🙂
Another key point is: unless you're prepared to get fussy, really fussy with digital replay ... it ain't gonna happen - convincing sound, that is. Being matter of fact, or casual about it will almost certainly guarantee disappointing sound - at the moment typical replay environments are extremely fragile, the slightest "wrongness" somewhere will knock the subjective quality of digital sound right off its pedestal, instantly ... I'm afraid that is just the nature of the beast, at the moment ...
There are plenty of playback devices that can be set to basically send the data directly to a DAC without further processing. There are plenty of threads around concerning bit perfect playback.
Integer or floating point? 32 bit integers are an extra 8 bits of noise and 32 bit floats are 24 bit mantissa and can be arbitrarily normalized and maintain the 24 bit accuracy so they are computationally useful in DSP's but don't make sense as a delivery format.
I take it that almost nobody has done the exercises of starting with normal CD, upsampling to hires - or starting with premium hires, downsampling that to CD quality, then upsampling that result back up to the starting hires format, and comparing them all ... all the simple, obvious things to try first ... oh dear, 🙄 , 🙄 ...
- Status
- Not open for further replies.