But again we're left not really advancing our meaningful knowledge, just trying to come up with correlations to help reinforce peoples' religious beliefs.
se
Just to nail my colours a bit more clearly to the mast:
1. I've found that a sufficiently capable system delivers a quantum jump in the subjective quality of playback.
2. This quality is typically not achieved by focusing on the parameters that are normally dealt with, or optimised. Further, even if solely concentrating on optimising aspects that are responsible for this quality it can be difficult to achieve, and is highly susceptible to influences of the overall electrical environment - i.e., it is not a system state which is robust, at least with current knowledge.
3. This makes it exceedingly difficult, at the moment, to present a mechanism which can be subject to strenuous DB and similar testing.
4. Anecdotal accounts suggest that quite a number of people can experience this 'effect'; and, conversely, relatively few people achieve a system this capable.
5. This all suggests to me, in spite of contrary viewpoints, that it's worth persisting with attempting to understand this behaviour, and to replicate it on demand.
1. I've found that a sufficiently capable system delivers a quantum jump in the subjective quality of playback.
2. This quality is typically not achieved by focusing on the parameters that are normally dealt with, or optimised. Further, even if solely concentrating on optimising aspects that are responsible for this quality it can be difficult to achieve, and is highly susceptible to influences of the overall electrical environment - i.e., it is not a system state which is robust, at least with current knowledge.
3. This makes it exceedingly difficult, at the moment, to present a mechanism which can be subject to strenuous DB and similar testing.
4. Anecdotal accounts suggest that quite a number of people can experience this 'effect'; and, conversely, relatively few people achieve a system this capable.
5. This all suggests to me, in spite of contrary viewpoints, that it's worth persisting with attempting to understand this behaviour, and to replicate it on demand.
Note that in these fields of hard science, DBT [and other's] are used to determine if the drug can get into the market by doing something useful/desireable. However, the drugs efficacy and whether it is found later to do nothing and is removed, is not determined thru more DBT. The 'truth' is learned thru analyzing the raw data from thousands and millions and billions of doses and outcomes.
European medicine uses both old and new. What works. The old has proven its efficacy for centuries and thus needs no Scientific Proof methodology and is accepted and practiced together as both correct ways to get to the truth of the matter [cure].
So I say it again, this DBLT is a nice first step. But, it is not the final word... and does not mean the results will be found to endure the test of time and collective knowledge.
Thx-RNMarsh
Last edited:
I don't think that is entirely correct. There are in fact drugs on the market which are accepted as efficacious for one reason or another. What the drug companies have quietly found is that they don't actually outperform placebo. There are treatments that have been effective for centuries because they are placebo and placebo works. See the link posted by JCX.
Last edited:
Like I said, not counting weird, exceptions and odd ball stuff. Real science gets it wrong frequent enough -even with DBT. So keep an open mind.
Thx-RNMarsh
Thx-RNMarsh
Unless you're claiming that humans are immune from bias, explain to me how you can draw anything meaningful from correlations involving humans prone to bias.
se
Try Ferrites For Yourselves....
Several tracks later it was remarked that something did not sound 'right' about the stereo, and this from two guys who know nothing about electronics, much less audiophile level gear, but they do know the sound of that particular stereo.
I kept stumm, and made no comments or suggestions...I was being perfectly careful not to, in order to keep this as a blind experiment.
During this whole period, all talk was about cars and none about electronics, audio or sonics.
Several cd's later I revealed that the change was caused by fitting the ferrite, and the then sighted testing further confirmed the blind result that they did not like the change imparted by the ferrite.
Dan.
Ok, so I walked back into the garage, determined that we needed a particular bent long nose pliers, went over to the bench and whilst finding the tool, surreptitiously clipped the ferrite onto the stereo power cable, skipped back two cd tracks and immediately returned to the car.
Several tracks later it was remarked that something did not sound 'right' about the stereo, and this from two guys who know nothing about electronics, much less audiophile level gear, but they do know the sound of that particular stereo.
I kept stumm, and made no comments or suggestions...I was being perfectly careful not to, in order to keep this as a blind experiment.
During this whole period, all talk was about cars and none about electronics, audio or sonics.
Several cd's later I revealed that the change was caused by fitting the ferrite, and the then sighted testing further confirmed the blind result that they did not like the change imparted by the ferrite.
Dan.
I find this interesting that ferrites can alter and ruin audio frequencies so badly.
I do remember in a discussion on them many years ago, someone mentioned an audio publication revue where when the revuers saw the ferrites in the amp they slated its sound even though it measured very well!
I would presume that the effect of the ferrite can be measured, andf some screen shots of the altered waveform or FFTs of the amended spectral content are available somewhere?
I do remember in a discussion on them many years ago, someone mentioned an audio publication revue where when the revuers saw the ferrites in the amp they slated its sound even though it measured very well!
I would presume that the effect of the ferrite can be measured, andf some screen shots of the altered waveform or FFTs of the amended spectral content are available somewhere?
BTW If you are interested in the difference between correlation and causality, a nice, somewhat tongue-in-cheek article can be found here: Theory of the Stork: New Evidence - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet
jan
jan
Thank you for the link.
From a technical point of view, this is in support of SY’s ballbreaking insistence in rigorousness when planning and testing trials and Richard’s additional need for metatesting.
From a medical point of view, “the body's innate ability to heal itself” is the main issue.
From a psychological/sociological point of view, the article doesn’t lead me to any different thoughts on human nature than the article on “Magic” I was reading a week ago in the 1991 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica.
Steve, yes. We are all prone to -pure Class A level- bias.
George
Last edited:
Fundamental error with the analogies: an experiment to answer question A and an experiment to answer question B are likely to be structured differently.
Fundamental error No2 : the expert assuming to have understanding and insight in the core issues of the problem at hand.
But what do I know ? I'm just a gigolo, everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playing.
But what do I know ? I'm just a gigolo, everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playing.
(The) Rules out a drama queen.
Lawyer !
(+ amateur theatre prima donna, possible hormonal treatment, antidepressant therapy
)That is all you are going to get from me on this forum. Do your own home work. The scientist doing research rely on others with expertise to collaborate with on designing the tests and trials to see what is true to the best of thier abilitites. Metadata studies on larger numbers than any of us would ever do for audio/listening tests is an important part of determining the truth after all is said and done.
OK. What's next?
Thx-RNMarsh
- Status
- Not open for further replies.