Qusp,
I think that in the Lounge section or the Everything Else section this topic would be most welcomed. There are definitely places for this type of discussions and I am more than sure you will get a lot of agreement about what you are talking about. If my house had the right roof slope and was facing due south I would have solar panels on the roof of my house, but the orientation is just plain wrong for it. I looked into this almost 40 years ago but back then the efficiency of the panels made very little sense, the entire roof covered with cells would not have supplied the house with much more than a fraction of the power needed.
JNeutron,
Funny that you should bring up the machined billet aluminum for an enclosure. I was just thinking about how you would even determine the necessary thickness for that purpose? Is the attenuation directly related to thickness or is there something else to look at? I understand that this seems more like a crutch for an inferior electrical board layout and that is more likely the proper approach to EMI and other interference problems, getting the circuit correct and wiring done with the least lengths necessary and twisted pairs and proper power supply wiring and topology.
Qusp,
This use of aluminum machined from a billet is about as silly as all the aluminum wheels for cars that are now machined out of billets as the players in the field cannot afford to use forgings to limit the massive waste of material that this method requires to machine them on a cnc machine.
I think that in the Lounge section or the Everything Else section this topic would be most welcomed. There are definitely places for this type of discussions and I am more than sure you will get a lot of agreement about what you are talking about. If my house had the right roof slope and was facing due south I would have solar panels on the roof of my house, but the orientation is just plain wrong for it. I looked into this almost 40 years ago but back then the efficiency of the panels made very little sense, the entire roof covered with cells would not have supplied the house with much more than a fraction of the power needed.
JNeutron,
Funny that you should bring up the machined billet aluminum for an enclosure. I was just thinking about how you would even determine the necessary thickness for that purpose? Is the attenuation directly related to thickness or is there something else to look at? I understand that this seems more like a crutch for an inferior electrical board layout and that is more likely the proper approach to EMI and other interference problems, getting the circuit correct and wiring done with the least lengths necessary and twisted pairs and proper power supply wiring and topology.
Qusp,
This use of aluminum machined from a billet is about as silly as all the aluminum wheels for cars that are now machined out of billets as the players in the field cannot afford to use forgings to limit the massive waste of material that this method requires to machine them on a cnc machine.
I already gave credence to an extent to Indy || F1 for exactly that and regenerative breaking etc. that stuff is pushing the envelope. its still a bit sad that it takes that sort of money/exhibition to get people onboard.
but there are other 'sports' like monster trucks, truck racing, ..golf ... (sorry golf fans, it gives people joy, I do like that aspect) etc etc that have nothing to do with advancing technology, many of them will be running engines that dont even belong in a boat, truck, car etc. Massive powerboats using old tech with blowers on it, engine management and composite frames etc, not to save fuel, but to get more power/speed from the fuel, which only results in getting somewhere they dont need to go, quicker.
agree completely, but I still dont think its a wise use of resources, necessary for our safety etc and it is a huge waste. for all those pushing the envelope there is another several tens of thousands using last years, blowing stuff up and generally contributing little to the advancement of anything.
its all part of the problem, it is not part of any solution going forward, i'm not picking on power boats specifically, but its a damn fine example and defending the right for such waste by bringing in the economy and providing for our children... I just dont get it... i'm just not sure there is any justification.
he did and where exactly did I complain about pushing the envelope if there are real benefits and no losers? I simply claimed that there isnt a lot of envelope pushing going on and the ends do not IMO justify the means.
and that is a shame when a season of just one regional powerboat, monster truck etc etc racing cup would possibly make a big difference to your endeavour... because theyre pushing the envelope.
so anyway, theres my incoherent ramblings in reply to you and lets leave it at that or take it to PM
but there are other 'sports' like monster trucks, truck racing, ..golf ... (sorry golf fans, it gives people joy, I do like that aspect) etc etc that have nothing to do with advancing technology, many of them will be running engines that dont even belong in a boat, truck, car etc. Massive powerboats using old tech with blowers on it, engine management and composite frames etc, not to save fuel, but to get more power/speed from the fuel, which only results in getting somewhere they dont need to go, quicker.
agree completely, but I still dont think its a wise use of resources, necessary for our safety etc and it is a huge waste. for all those pushing the envelope there is another several tens of thousands using last years, blowing stuff up and generally contributing little to the advancement of anything.
its all part of the problem, it is not part of any solution going forward, i'm not picking on power boats specifically, but its a damn fine example and defending the right for such waste by bringing in the economy and providing for our children... I just dont get it... i'm just not sure there is any justification.
yep and I expect someone like that might just cop some flac from some people ...
he did and where exactly did I complain about pushing the envelope if there are real benefits and no losers? I simply claimed that there isnt a lot of envelope pushing going on and the ends do not IMO justify the means.
and that is a shame when a season of just one regional powerboat, monster truck etc etc racing cup would possibly make a big difference to your endeavour... because theyre pushing the envelope.
so anyway, theres my incoherent ramblings in reply to you and lets leave it at that or take it to PM
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Steven, nah I dont think so, not even in the lounge. normally this thread is actually one of the more progressive areas of the forum. too often people cannot separate it from politics and it ends in slagging matches. whats the point of chatting it over with a hep of people already onboard anyway? this stuff necessarily causes friction if it didnt, the conversation wouldnt need to happen in the first place. but it cannot continue to be pushed aside and I dunno, I guess that deleted post before calling me a lefty tree hugger really lit my fuse.
but hey i'm tired and unwelcome, i've done my bit for the year.
but hey i'm tired and unwelcome, i've done my bit for the year.
cool, we're screwed.. pile on! ? wow.
alright, i'm gonna clean my house. no more thorn in your side.
I thought that all the lefty tree huggers were here in California and we have some pretty big trees to hug! I appreciate that the subject is something that you believe in so much. If I didn't have to worry about getting run over by some dunce in a car I would be on my road bike much more often. I have grown up with some of the worst air quality in the world here in Los Angeles and I do appreciate how much better it is today than when I was a kid. I couldn't see more than a mile when I was younger and it burned your eyes on a bad day. So I will say we have made progress and with all the damned Prius cars here I guess we are going in the right direction, though I hate that car, why does it have to be so damned ugly?!
Thank you Pavel I will do that. But isn't there more to it than just the skin affect when it comes to blocking RF from external sources?
Kindhornman, just look up some shielding tables from the internet to see what happens when you make 'seamless' but thick aluminum shielding.
sailing, well its a bit pricy too, but its not doing any (well hardly any) harm, private money and its getting that same thrill of speed from harnessing whats there, really pushing what you can get out of a limited, unpredictable and completely free, clean resource and it will help us moving forward. what negatives there are, are outweighed by positives. My Uncle races nacras and most Sydney to Hobart races.
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I do not understand why people do not try before asking. Even the simplest link like
Skin effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
shows shielding effect against mag field as a function of frequency and thickness for various materials. This is repeated over and over even in THIS thread.
Skin effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
shows shielding effect against mag field as a function of frequency and thickness for various materials. This is repeated over and over even in THIS thread.
30 years ago, Australia won the America's cup thanks to a winged willy.(september 1983)
Initial expertise gained by the winged avenger led to a vane that drops average fuel consumption by a fifth.
Can be retro-fitted, works both for yachts and commercial vessels.
Same researcher developed a slender hull form, which saves 30% on fuel.
First 213ft with that hull shape just finished sea trials, currently getting the finishing touch (biggies over 100ft have an all-year docking quay 5 miles from where I live).
Combined hull + vane would reduce fuel consumption by 50 percent average.
Also means half size engines, half diesel oil tanks size, plus improved handling.
Lots of know-how comes from racing, NASCAR, even Pikes peak.
Under-body diffuser technology from racing also benefits electric vehicles.
(just not H1, standard engines from 30yr old Chinook heli's, zero innovation. Leisure activity for rich old guys, some are over 60)
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this is pointless
most Aussies are aware of the winged keel ... the underbody tech would never have come about from actually directly setting out to improve the aerodynamics of... the electric car?
hope this gets through, dont want to make another post for it. the combustion engine has done and will continue to play a major part in our development, but I think its time to move on, well past the time. I believe there are more efficient ways to make new tech run better, by directly investing in developing that tech, rather than relying on byproducts from flogging a dead horse for our amusement. it will be cheaper and knowing us, eventually more powerful. the torque on electric is pretty insane
most Aussies are aware of the winged keel ... the underbody tech would never have come about from actually directly setting out to improve the aerodynamics of... the electric car?
hope this gets through, dont want to make another post for it. the combustion engine has done and will continue to play a major part in our development, but I think its time to move on, well past the time. I believe there are more efficient ways to make new tech run better, by directly investing in developing that tech, rather than relying on byproducts from flogging a dead horse for our amusement. it will be cheaper and knowing us, eventually more powerful. the torque on electric is pretty insane
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To be fair, it's not as if all that material is just carted off to the landfill.
se
Thanks again Pavel. I am reading it and understand it on a basic level. John, I thought that your enclosure on the Blowtorch had a removable top and section for the back. So given the skin affect how much of this 1/2" thickness enclosure is really needed, and what is to make the customer happy thinking that heavier is considered a higher quality product?
Steve Eddy,
Yes I think that is correct and if I read it correct somewhere I think about 90% of all the aluminum cans in California are recycled. But it is still a fairly silly thing to do when you see one of these billets of aluminum and what is left after machining. Those forged billets are not cheap that is for sure.
Yes I think that is correct and if I read it correct somewhere I think about 90% of all the aluminum cans in California are recycled. But it is still a fairly silly thing to do when you see one of these billets of aluminum and what is left after machining. Those forged billets are not cheap that is for sure.
If you'd have cleaned up that rat's nest of a wiring job inside it and reduced the pickup loop areas, it would have been well more than enough.
se
Oh no, I agree. Just pointing out that machinists don't typically throw all that aluminum into the landfill. It goes to the recyclers.
se
I pay as little as $2.20 a pound for aluminum and as much as $3.50. The scrap brings in $.35 to $.85 a pound. I don't know of anyone who does serious machining that throws out the scrap.
Steel scrap in small quantities is up to $.08 a pound. You'd be surprised at how little it takes to make a pound. (Hint less than 4 cubic inches.)
Copper of course is the best.
That is why machining a billet that you paid $2.20 a pound for and get 1/3 back from the scrap is a viable method.
When you get a custom casting the quality may not be the same as what the billet started as. Some of the important alloy elements burn off. Then there is the shrinkage in size and mold contamination. Not to mention temperature and tempers.
ES
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