I guess a ground loop would be a CMRR problem???
If the issue is rejection of noise pickup mechanisms at the cartridge its better to identify each and test for them individually. A magnetic field and an electrostatic field are not hard to create. Most of the issue will be from the specific implementation of the cartridge and its connection to local shielding.
Personally I don't see the benefit of a differential input for a phono source. You ad 3 dB of noise and higher potential for common mode issues. properly implemented shielding should address all the noise that can be addressed If the motor has a big field you are in trouble regardless..
Demian,
Thanks for the comments and observations. I'll look into the Chromecast module as you suggest. Sometimes an outside set of eyes sees things differently and catches the obvious we are just blind to.
Has anyone heard from or communicated with bcarso, Brad? Perhaps he is up to his armpits with alligators over at Shinola.
Thanks for the comments and observations. I'll look into the Chromecast module as you suggest. Sometimes an outside set of eyes sees things differently and catches the obvious we are just blind to.
Has anyone heard from or communicated with bcarso, Brad? Perhaps he is up to his armpits with alligators over at Shinola.
Richard, you may not have grasped. I make of Scott's point that the Hirata waveform, which is necessarily bandwidth limited, on purpose or by nature, can be decomposed into a series of sine waves. Therefore, there is no fundamental difference between the Hirata waveform and multi tone testing. He did not want you to do this in the physical reality, but rather as a thought experiment.
There is an edge case where balanced improves noise, at least in simulation, which is where you are using a transimpedance input. Hans P discovered this when looking at a design we were mulling. Now whether you still get that in the real world we have not proven yet but certainly looks positive enough to be worth building something.
I know, that's why it's such a guilty pleasure to go completely over the top. I do have a hidden agenda though which is trying to get to the bottom of why many do not give MM cartridges a proper listen. Seems amongst the over 50s there is a border line between those who think the V15V (and the technics equivalents) were the best cartridges ever and those who think only MC can provide the truth on the plastic.
No more silly than chasing 1ppm on a power amplifier
No more silly than chasing 1ppm on a power amplifier
I had posted some plots in that thread btn posts #124, #181. Very amateurish work, Mr Marsh won't be satisfied.
Digitizing vinyl
George
Being squarely in your target demographic, let me provide my two cents best guess as to why hifi is dying amongst the newer generation and how you might best reach these people.
Although I don't understand 98% of what you all discuss, sometimes I pop in to amuse myself with watching you all bicker and occasionally I get a smidgen of wisdom I can apply. So, consider this my humble attempt at giving back!
I'm in the gimme it in a kit or I'm fairly useless camp... but I'm intrigued as a hobby and have been making my way.
1. The distribution and marketing model for traditional hifi is flawed for those under 40/50. No one wants to go into a hifi shop, unless it's really slick and has mobile friendly devices and stuff their girlfriend/fiancé/wife can check out too. Most of these places are in urban environments as they stock things like Sonos and Sennheiser headphones. No one is going into a traditional hifi establishment with stacks of krell and McIntosh. Also, the dealer model disgusts our generation- from cars to whatever- we try to purchase straight from the producer... otherwise it feels like "used car salesman" tactics.
The general opinion is that most of the hifi "show" crowd are old, snobby "d-bags". No one besides the occasional young fool will be there, unless his dad brought him or he works for some startup or something. The hifi show will die with your generation.
Our generation has very little respect for the hifi establishment at large, basically. The megapriced snake oil cables didn't help- the whole thing just reeks of money grabs. Just look at a hifi show photo reel- can you spot anyone who isn't bald?
If they are outside of an urban environment where they can't hear it in person they will use reviews to make their selection and purchase online, listen to it and then return it if they don't like it. We don't want to be forced to go somewhere- we are too busy, life is faster and more demanding for us than it was in your generation.
Although I'm sure even the older folks can appreciate 2 day free shipping and 30 day returns for Amazon prime!
Your website/ web presence and distribution model is vital. Reaching this demographic is also not as complex as you think you have to just reconsider the old marketing model of magazines. Any ad in a mag I generally consider to be money 100% wasted in targeting my demographic, or better spent in other areas.
2. Almost all are primarily streaming from a smart device whether it be a phone, tablet, computer, Apple TV etc. but that doesn't mean we want you do try and duplicate these functions at all.
We DO NOT want the technology imbedded in our higher cost devices like speakers - because technology changes too rapidly and then you have a useless product. Bluetooth is about as far as you want to go.
Don't try to one up Apple- you will fail every time. Don't even think about adding a function that takes the place of an apple function.
All you need is a phone and an Apple TV, which most already have, and you have every function right out of the box that you'll need given the speaker has a plate amp, dsp, toslink input etc - these might be reasonable additions.
However, if it's a Phono stage or something like that DONT MAKE US BUY MORE ANCILLARY CRAP. Make it do MM and MC and give us a ton of loading options and put it on the front panel not obnoxious dip switches inside the chassis.
Outfitting something with internal or rear panel dipswitches are akin to spitting in the face of a millennial.
The iFi Phono and the Tavish Design Adagio understand this and I believe have sold well. They can't build enough of the Tavish to keep it in stock. The iFi is so small, so versatile and modestly priced that the dipswitch situation is acceptable, btw.
https://tavishdesign.com/products/adagio-vacuum-tube-phono-stage-mm-mc
iFi iPhono 2 | The Ear
3. Most hifi is ugly, large and not ergonomic or user friendly. Those who live in an urban area and have the space for a full hifi setup in higher price brackets will demand it look exceptional- if not, no dice. So if it's big it better pass as Scandinavian.
Most in urban areas are primarily headphone listeners and want to listen with headphone amps at their computers- the success of Schiit etc. shows this. This I believe to be part of our society's more transient / urban / more mobile population- so if moderates priced/ lower end make It small and sleek.
Build something that looks like it was made by Braun in their heyday. Something that would not be out of place in a mid century modern environment. Also, integration of appearance is vital if it requires multiple units.
If it's not attractive it doesn't matter if it sounds like golden unicorns dancing in the moonlight- no one really cares. You guys have WAF, well we have GAF and FAF, the girlfriend and fiancé versions, and it's not pretty- we are losing.
Look at the current going rate for the Dieter Rams Braun audio electronics from the 70s if you don't believe me. They sell for more than they cost new. Even their table top lighters go for over a hundred bucks. That's my demographic driving the price up.
I believe the most successful designs for speakers lately that was higher fidelity / higher expense and able to reach a wider audience was the Devialet and the Carlsson OD-11.
https://store.moma.org/mobile/product/productDetails.form?productId=255296&categoryId=11501
Also PS Audio and Schiit, while not speakers, seem to be doing well in this market.
Not sure if it is hifi to your standards, but a successful entry into a market that is not being breached by the normal hifi establishment.
Your design I feel has wonderful intentions. I applaud you for making the attempt to encourage a younger generation to enjoy better sound.
On the topic of a microphone- save the money and use it for the things I described above.
An iPhone will automatically pause music and you can take the call and your music will immediately resume after. If you want hands free, you can just put the phone on speaker.
I doubt the microphone will integrate the same way unless it's paired separately.
Also my feeling is that FaceTime will begin to creep up on only audio calling- so unless your speaker has a screen to its out of luck and outdated already.
Give it Bluetooth and a simplified volume control like the Carlsson and that's all you really need.
It's EXTREMELY RARE a cell phone is farther than 8 feet at any time from someone in their 20's, 30's or even 40s. If it is, their tablet is nearby and they can use handoff to pick up the call on their tablet.
Pairing with your mic will take longer than that and be considered a nuisance not a feature. If we are not listening with headphones we usually have company, those who we probably don't want listening to our phone calls.
The general theme is: make it look better than it sounds, don't make us think.
If you can do that, I don't care what it costs I want it.
Hope that helps give you a few insights.
Spaceistheplace,
Thanks for the synopsis of the younger crowds thinking. I have my own 20 somethings so I have observed many of the behaviors and reactions you just listed. Keep it simple I will do, great sound yes, small package with huge sound and made to fit with any modern decor. Got it and I do understand the direct to end user preference, I actually hate HiFi stores and the dealers attitudes and mythological magic wires and cable lifters! I'm going to put my 20 somethings to work helping create a website that generation will actually visit.
Thanks for the synopsis of the younger crowds thinking. I have my own 20 somethings so I have observed many of the behaviors and reactions you just listed. Keep it simple I will do, great sound yes, small package with huge sound and made to fit with any modern decor. Got it and I do understand the direct to end user preference, I actually hate HiFi stores and the dealers attitudes and mythological magic wires and cable lifters! I'm going to put my 20 somethings to work helping create a website that generation will actually visit.
Amen to that. One amendment, though: millennials are 95% dirt poor, so they are anyway outside the High End Audio marketing target.
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Waly,
Though the world is the market I'm in California and if the millennials are dirt poor you sure wouldn't know it by their cars, clothes and electronic accessories! These kids are getting salary offers I could only dream about growing up in tech. While it was the oft quoted "Plastics" from "The Graduate" when I grew up, today it is computer sciences, that's where the money lies today.
ps. I actually took Spaceistheplace's text and copied to a document, it is definitely part of the plan. Don't worry though, I'll still build the mega bucks stuff for those that want it just kept separate from what I'm going to do with these current speakers.
Though the world is the market I'm in California and if the millennials are dirt poor you sure wouldn't know it by their cars, clothes and electronic accessories! These kids are getting salary offers I could only dream about growing up in tech. While it was the oft quoted "Plastics" from "The Graduate" when I grew up, today it is computer sciences, that's where the money lies today.
ps. I actually took Spaceistheplace's text and copied to a document, it is definitely part of the plan. Don't worry though, I'll still build the mega bucks stuff for those that want it just kept separate from what I'm going to do with these current speakers.
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*95% of the planet is dirt poor.
They still sell plenty of 1k power cords.
You are thinking of college age and 20 somethings, the lower end of the spectrum. Millennials are in their mid 30s now.
If they can afford $700 iphones and 3k MacBooks that become obsolete in 1-3 years they can afford audio equipment they just choose not to.
Based on my observations, make that up to 30 and we agree. And they can't afford $700 iphones and 3k MacBooks, their parents can. Or their student loans, or their maxed out credit cards (if they have one).
Steven
This page shows/lists all that you want to know. https://www.teenageengineering.com/products/od-11/technology
Very kind of Spaceistheplace for his two posts. A kind of fresh air for this thread but the specifics for the future speaker belong to a new dedicated thread.
George
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