Yes, the laws of economics are among us,
they govern us whether we realize it, acknowledge, it or not.
Karl Marx got two of the three correct.
Source of wealth:
Land
Labor
and
Capital
Spent too much and they pull the plug.
Cheers,
they govern us whether we realize it, acknowledge, it or not.
Karl Marx got two of the three correct.
Source of wealth:
Land
Labor
and
Capital
Spent too much and they pull the plug.
Cheers,
Well you, like Wayne are in the 'its entertainment not dialysis' industry. However if you ARE in dialysis then having batch tracability is vital.
I was reading this morning about the problems with supply of LIDAR systems for self driving cars. I didn't realise that Velodyne were the main supplier of these, with units suitable for self driving cars running around $85k a unit. Now for building subs you need a completely different inventory management approach than for building the eyes of a car. You charge more for the eyes to cover this 🙂
I think that making a small audio business successful is a balance between intellect, capital, and a lean overhead.
Politics, (knowing the right people) can be an asset as well. Getting along with people in the industry can make your product sought after significantly enough to keep the doors open.
Not all of us have all the necessary background, experience or attitude to do everything optimally. I, for example, hate marketing, advertising or even demonstrating a product at a show. This has cost me plenty, in terms of financial success.
Others may want to get into the audio business, but don't believe in listener feedback, and have made products that fail to sell, while still believing that their product is as good as anything out there.
Still others might 'throw something together' in a nice package, thinking that that is all there is to it. I have found, even with the most aggressive marketing, that it generally fails in the marketplace.
etc, etc.
Politics, (knowing the right people) can be an asset as well. Getting along with people in the industry can make your product sought after significantly enough to keep the doors open.
Not all of us have all the necessary background, experience or attitude to do everything optimally. I, for example, hate marketing, advertising or even demonstrating a product at a show. This has cost me plenty, in terms of financial success.
Others may want to get into the audio business, but don't believe in listener feedback, and have made products that fail to sell, while still believing that their product is as good as anything out there.
Still others might 'throw something together' in a nice package, thinking that that is all there is to it. I have found, even with the most aggressive marketing, that it generally fails in the marketplace.
etc, etc.
It will fail without good marketing and a great story, whatever the qualities.
OTOH, if it is a great product it *may* succeed. Or not.
Such is the world of fashion products.
Not the extremely limited and closed diy crowd, but out there in the real world marketplace.
Jan
OTOH, if it is a great product it *may* succeed. Or not.
Such is the world of fashion products.
Not the extremely limited and closed diy crowd, but out there in the real world marketplace.
Jan
Our local Epic Systems started as a computer in a basement, with Judy and a part-timer.
I later worked in a startup in the same basement, because Epic left their three phase power
in place when they left, and we needed it for power electronics development.
The humble origins of Epic — and 4 other iconic Dane County companies - In Business Madison - September 2014
So would we say about: 40% luck, 20% competence, 20% good product, and 20% low overhead (no conference rooms)? 🙂
The percentage of luck involved probably depends on various factors, perhaps including such things as market conditions, and exactly how much success we are talking about. Huge successes usually require much more luck.
Luck is just recognizing opportunity and seizing it. Who would ever start a project thinking they would depend on luck for half of it??
You could do as well on Wall Street with a lot less work. ;-)
Jan
You could do as well on Wall Street with a lot less work. ;-)
Jan
You describe the attitude entrepreneurs have to have in order to believe they can succeed.
However, there are sound reasons to believe such people are overly optimistic about to degree to which things are under their control. Luck plays a much greater role than most people appreciate, or so argues Daniel Khaneman in his book, Thinking Fast and Slow. His arguments seem convincing to me.
Cannot say I disagree - the important point, that you also make, is that you charge ahead expecting to have full control over everything. But yes, in reality, it is not so and you do a lot of post-fact rationalisation. And sometimes that rationalisation means you blame it on bad luck when it goes south.
Luck I would call factors out of your control that give you an advantage; bad luck is factors out of your control that are to your disadvantage.
Edit: Part of it resonates with this book, that I'm sure you'd enjoy: Mistakes were made, but not by me. (The title is from a famous statement by Dick Cheney at a hearing about the Iraq war).
Jan
Last edited:
I'm taking all of what you guys are saying with a grain of salt... since not one of you actually owns a company. It can be scary being very poor and trying to start one, especially when there's so many negative Nancys.
I read that book too, and enjoyed it. The only problem I have with it is that the authors tend to explain everything in terms of cognitive dissonance, which I don't think is useful for most purposes. For that reason, it's not among the primary books about human nature I usually recommend to people wanting to learn something of practical value.
Oh Yee of little faith and even less circumspection and doubt.
And you can take it any way you care too. If you don't listen,
then your apt to make some of the same mistakes.
And
Even if you do everything right, etc, there is no guarantee
you will survive.
All it takes is one poor supplier that has a defect that might
not reveal it's ugly head for a few months...and you'll be dead.
Even if it isn't your fault.
There are a few of us here who've owned companies.
There are a few of us here who've owned corporations too.
And there are also a few of us here who've also been on a board of directors.
It's a tough go unless you find the goose that lays the golden eggs.
And the goose is fleeting.
And none of this is meant to discourage you either.
Not taking advise, or claiming it isn't worth a grain of salt,
that is a sure fire way to shoot yourself in the foot. The one
think you don't need to be is (fill in the blank).
While we are on the topic...of organizations etc,
one good read for staffing can be found in this
book from amazon....https://www.amazon.com/*******-Rule...id=1495146648&sr=8-1&keywords=no+asshold+rule
Enjoy.
And you can take it any way you care too. If you don't listen,
then your apt to make some of the same mistakes.
And
Even if you do everything right, etc, there is no guarantee
you will survive.
All it takes is one poor supplier that has a defect that might
not reveal it's ugly head for a few months...and you'll be dead.
Even if it isn't your fault.
There are a few of us here who've owned companies.
There are a few of us here who've owned corporations too.
And there are also a few of us here who've also been on a board of directors.
It's a tough go unless you find the goose that lays the golden eggs.
And the goose is fleeting.
And none of this is meant to discourage you either.
Not taking advise, or claiming it isn't worth a grain of salt,
that is a sure fire way to shoot yourself in the foot. The one
think you don't need to be is (fill in the blank).
While we are on the topic...of organizations etc,
one good read for staffing can be found in this
book from amazon....https://www.amazon.com/*******-Rule...id=1495146648&sr=8-1&keywords=no+asshold+rule
Enjoy.
Well Jan owns at least one. I have started a company and had to fold it due to cash flow after an investor pulled out. Ed certainly appears to own a company, Demian too. There are probably a dozen other consultants/small traders on here you could find easily enough. So a few centuries of experience.
Actually making stuff can be a gigantic pain. I've personally seen it from 2 sides. Low volume aerospace and medium volume telco. I've not had the pleasure of real mass production where you need a unit to fall off the line every 3-4 seconds but I am sure some here could share the joy of that.
Would I consider going into the boutique audio market in 2017. Not a hope. Way too risky in a saturated marketplace with the mouths I have to feed, even when you can run a crowdfunder for a cardboard turntable (This DIY Kickstarter gives you all the tools to build your own turntable).
I reckon there is a market for turntable setup surgeries though based on the people getting into vinyl whose parents had CD players when they were little! But that's beer money not a main income.
See, I'm trying not to let you get to me... What should I do otherwise, curl up in a ball and die. I think that attitude is surprssive by nature so it's hard to expect success.
I guess I don't know what companies these guys have... Marsh had one. The rest I don't know if they're anything I'd know about?
I think all the competition is good, since it's so easy to make better sounding stuff. I'd rather there be a lot more similar sounding mediocre gear as a contrast, than a handful that makes it harder to choose.
I guess I don't know what companies these guys have... Marsh had one. The rest I don't know if they're anything I'd know about?
I think all the competition is good, since it's so easy to make better sounding stuff. I'd rather there be a lot more similar sounding mediocre gear as a contrast, than a handful that makes it harder to choose.
I have had the misfortune of starting 3 audio companies. Its not much fun once its going. I'd rather invent stuff and get paid for it than make sure employees show up for work and deal with customer complaints.
I have been involved with several scales of company and production. Core fact, none ever failed due to lack of profitability. Lack of money is a different story.
Small volume, it can be easier to recover from mistakes since there aren't many pieces involved and fixing can be a good opportunity to interact with the customer (Old IBM rule). Large volume can fill warehouses with landfill product so fast your head will spin. Biggest mistake small players make is to get the big order from a major retail channel. The small player doesn't have the resources to handle the abuse in those channels. Ship 10000 pieces for a big rollout. 3 months later 9000 come back. You still need to pay your vendors.
For years VC's shunned manufacturing companies, too capital intensive. Software was great by comparison.
If you can afford to start an audio company, invest in real estate. . .
I have been involved with several scales of company and production. Core fact, none ever failed due to lack of profitability. Lack of money is a different story.
Small volume, it can be easier to recover from mistakes since there aren't many pieces involved and fixing can be a good opportunity to interact with the customer (Old IBM rule). Large volume can fill warehouses with landfill product so fast your head will spin. Biggest mistake small players make is to get the big order from a major retail channel. The small player doesn't have the resources to handle the abuse in those channels. Ship 10000 pieces for a big rollout. 3 months later 9000 come back. You still need to pay your vendors.
For years VC's shunned manufacturing companies, too capital intensive. Software was great by comparison.
If you can afford to start an audio company, invest in real estate. . .
you don't have to own the company, even "just an engineer" in a small company can see pretty much everything regarding product success/failure
the last place I worked, a small engineering firm, had several "cash cow" products, virtually randomly found - and a steady consulting contract research portion that while "not profitable" was critical to covering overhead
and one painful staffing, cash flow management product category - big expensive machines, 6 of them could double gross sales in a good year but there were 0 sales years too
and I did in fact end up as a part owner when the retiring President needed to be bought out, the company then reorganized from private to sub-chapter S
the last place I worked, a small engineering firm, had several "cash cow" products, virtually randomly found - and a steady consulting contract research portion that while "not profitable" was critical to covering overhead
and one painful staffing, cash flow management product category - big expensive machines, 6 of them could double gross sales in a good year but there were 0 sales years too
and I did in fact end up as a part owner when the retiring President needed to be bought out, the company then reorganized from private to sub-chapter S
Last edited:
Destroyer: Don't confuse reality with negativity. I remember 20 years ago Ken Kessler was writing that he hoped 50% of audio companies would go bust so the other 50% could stay profitable. Mind you he then persuaded everyone to go 'lifestyle' which has ended in the silly world of today.
'Better sounding stuff' as a mantra is a good way to go bust. Have you not read stereophile or TAS recently? The reviewers give awards to as many clearly flawed products as excellent ones (and it bears repeating here that JCs designs do measure excellently as well as sound good). To succeed you need something more than that. Something to stand out and give a USP. There are USPs out there. Bruno has found several. Devaliet certainly have their own groove. But these are the exception.
'Better sounding stuff' as a mantra is a good way to go bust. Have you not read stereophile or TAS recently? The reviewers give awards to as many clearly flawed products as excellent ones (and it bears repeating here that JCs designs do measure excellently as well as sound good). To succeed you need something more than that. Something to stand out and give a USP. There are USPs out there. Bruno has found several. Devaliet certainly have their own groove. But these are the exception.
Demian is quite right, the one big order...
Sears Roebuck & Co. was notorious for that. Getting small companies to
make their lawn more engines. They would in fact order 10,000 and then
used that little shop as leverage for the big shop to get better pricing.
The little shop that could geared up for production etc but never got
another order and went belly up.
Big companies become big by being mean,
then they become mean soul less machines.
The other issue is timing. Being a visionary is a great thing
except it's not profitable unless you are independently wealthy.
Nothing like being 10 - 15 years ahead of the market. You can't
wait that long for the infrastructural to get there. Even if you had
patents... they'd expire. Just ask the patent holder of the JFET.
Oh he died a while before they had the technology to make them.
And then there is the disrupter.
Just ask Polaroid-Land they were doing great, then they were working
on the next big thing, self developing film.
Sony killed it with the Betamax.
Then Sony got killed by VHS.
Then disc...
Then everything video went digital
then the manufacturing of them gone. most of the big players are gone.
Eastman Kodak? What's Film?
Cheers,
Now there is more power in Final Cut Pro than in the multi-million dollar
production and post production houses.
Anyone need a Vectorscope?
DestroyerOS - Just be prepared and make your stuff and sell it
here, ebay, amazon. It is a builders world. Make is love what your doing.
Find something that works and pays the bills.
Not every one will have a good partner as Bird-Eye and frozen veggies.
He sold the company for big money then they agreed to hire him and he
ran the business after he sold it. We should be so lucky, I've known a
few people who've done that. I've gotten close twice but well some
times thing don't work out the way we want them too.
Also some folks become really greedy and want the whole pie.
Cheers,
Sears Roebuck & Co. was notorious for that. Getting small companies to
make their lawn more engines. They would in fact order 10,000 and then
used that little shop as leverage for the big shop to get better pricing.
The little shop that could geared up for production etc but never got
another order and went belly up.
Big companies become big by being mean,
then they become mean soul less machines.
The other issue is timing. Being a visionary is a great thing
except it's not profitable unless you are independently wealthy.
Nothing like being 10 - 15 years ahead of the market. You can't
wait that long for the infrastructural to get there. Even if you had
patents... they'd expire. Just ask the patent holder of the JFET.
Oh he died a while before they had the technology to make them.
And then there is the disrupter.
Just ask Polaroid-Land they were doing great, then they were working
on the next big thing, self developing film.
Sony killed it with the Betamax.
Then Sony got killed by VHS.
Then disc...
Then everything video went digital
then the manufacturing of them gone. most of the big players are gone.
Eastman Kodak? What's Film?
Cheers,
Now there is more power in Final Cut Pro than in the multi-million dollar
production and post production houses.
Anyone need a Vectorscope?
DestroyerOS - Just be prepared and make your stuff and sell it
here, ebay, amazon. It is a builders world. Make is love what your doing.
Find something that works and pays the bills.
Not every one will have a good partner as Bird-Eye and frozen veggies.
He sold the company for big money then they agreed to hire him and he
ran the business after he sold it. We should be so lucky, I've known a
few people who've done that. I've gotten close twice but well some
times thing don't work out the way we want them too.
Also some folks become really greedy and want the whole pie.
Cheers,
Last edited:
I know about the audio rags... and don't care much. Everyone knows they review whomever pays. Besides the flawed products still win people over subjectively. While I don't aim to have flaws, I would never in my wildest dreams attempt to win customers with measurements either (no matter how good they are). Making stuff that sounds better just isn't hard to do IMO. If you've ever been to a show...
I will say a USP is something I find challenging. Frankly I hate all the mumbo-jumbo out there. My biggest thought is Complex-impedance, which is unique to stuff we work on as a concept of how deep it goes. But I've got one other thing going... Also I have some plans for diversifying some regular sales with stuff that isn't regular line up.
One thing I don't like is that it's hard to match other gear with things I make... it's not because I have strange impedance or unstable equipment... it's because other stuff sucks so bad. You can easily give a poor judgement on say an amplifier I have, because the speakers hooked up to it use a Fostex midrange based on the FE126en... the driver just isn't remotely ok unless it's fed copious amounts of 2nd order garble. That or I've had the experience of the awful power delivery of a huge balanced transformer and combination of a battery supplied weakling of a phono preamp (that cost ~$40k) stifling the strengths of the amp as it's choked by micro-saturations and fed a sissy signal that a buffer can't even help. What I've learned is that to even get optimal performance my product line has to start in the breaker box and I'm in a testing phase to get balanced transformers to behave well enough too... So the moral of the story is make a whole product line so you aren't swearing to people your stuff is great if it's not hooked up to garbage; and to have products that can compensate for the stuff people have already bought and built into their home.
I will say a USP is something I find challenging. Frankly I hate all the mumbo-jumbo out there. My biggest thought is Complex-impedance, which is unique to stuff we work on as a concept of how deep it goes. But I've got one other thing going... Also I have some plans for diversifying some regular sales with stuff that isn't regular line up.
One thing I don't like is that it's hard to match other gear with things I make... it's not because I have strange impedance or unstable equipment... it's because other stuff sucks so bad. You can easily give a poor judgement on say an amplifier I have, because the speakers hooked up to it use a Fostex midrange based on the FE126en... the driver just isn't remotely ok unless it's fed copious amounts of 2nd order garble. That or I've had the experience of the awful power delivery of a huge balanced transformer and combination of a battery supplied weakling of a phono preamp (that cost ~$40k) stifling the strengths of the amp as it's choked by micro-saturations and fed a sissy signal that a buffer can't even help. What I've learned is that to even get optimal performance my product line has to start in the breaker box and I'm in a testing phase to get balanced transformers to behave well enough too... So the moral of the story is make a whole product line so you aren't swearing to people your stuff is great if it's not hooked up to garbage; and to have products that can compensate for the stuff people have already bought and built into their home.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.