Well, within the context of listening tests, the white balance analogy is probably more relevant (I'm ribbing, just being friendly). We've not really evolved to be really good listening testers. The timber and pitch of a lion aren't so important as hearing it in the first place, so to speak. 🙂
If it does't it doesn't, anything wrong with that? It doesn't get you the personal extravagance points of course .
jan.didden said:
I don't have to test it, and I can present it as a fact. I draw on decades if not centuries of research and accepted facts. Remember my gravity analogy?
Now, if I would say that painting an amp in a dark color would darken the sound, you would be very right to vehemently ask for proof. Because such a statement would fly in the face of decades if not centuries of research and accepted facts.
Now, don't confuse this again, please? 😉
Jan
Originally from Malta, in one of the cookbooks I have there is a recipe for brain pie, I have been informed that when I was a kid and we were out there on holiday my Grandma did make this for us... But dragged up in sunny Yorkshire you got use to eating ALL the animal, tripe anyone.
Prefer them freshly suated these days though... a la Krendler.
Prefer them freshly suated these days though... a la Krendler.
Nothing wrong with that, i asked just to reach clarification.
Might be even more extravagant, but without the $7000 thing you wouldn´t know what to aim for.
I got the impression that there exists a fundamental misunderstanding and i´ll try to expand on that tomorrow. 🙂
Doesn't that presume the $7000 thing is what we should aim for? That seems awfully shaky ground to start on as well.
No malice intended Jakob, but why do you think I am looking forward to learn about your misunderstandings?
They are there for anyone to read.
Jan
So what is this peeking thing, really, all about. Bias that cannot be trusted? Brand name bias? Price bias? If that is the case, can you look at a couple DUT's in a box with a number or letter on the box? Like both boxes housing the test DUT's are same color (white or black) with a simple marking on it like a number or letter and peek at those. Would that be OK?
THx-RNMarsh
THx-RNMarsh
RNM -- if the question is which system (if any) sounds best, then yes, it's all about bias that cannot be trusted (and fairly easy to hijack). If you're putting something in your living room and shiney cases give you a _____, then, for goodness sake, just get the thing. It makes you happy, end of story.
Just don't try to make up that it's necessarily sonically better, because you have absolutely no way to back it up. It's certainly better for your happiness, which, as the consumer, is the goal. I hope. I swear some folks here are much more interested in the psychotic pursuit of "perfection" with a moving target of your own personal goals than actually enjoying what you've got. But that's off the deep end of philosophy.
Just don't try to make up that it's necessarily sonically better, because you have absolutely no way to back it up. It's certainly better for your happiness, which, as the consumer, is the goal. I hope. I swear some folks here are much more interested in the psychotic pursuit of "perfection" with a moving target of your own personal goals than actually enjoying what you've got. But that's off the deep end of philosophy.
Talk is cheap. ... 🙂
But never mind, it´s just a discussion about audio
Ts, ts....do you really claim infallibility?
One of us might be mistaken or eventually we both....
Actually it might be a single reason or all together.
Any A/B paired comparison removes those. Knowledge to be part of a test is one of the remaining confounders.
We addressed that roughly 15 years ago; two different preamplifier circuits housed in the same looking (production like) cases were presented to 5 listeners just asking for their preference. They did not know about being part of a test, could take their time (were actually between a few days and a couple of weeks) and should simply express their preference (or no preference) at the end. Letters used for marking were randomised before giving the DUTs to the specific listener (and the DUTs thoroughly measured too).
Worked quite well, but is a difficult/troublesome procedure; i´ve described all that a couple of years ago, including the measurement results.
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Well, just put the two being compared in a same size/color wood box... is easier. We can then go back and forth and compare A to B or 1 to 2 without bias but still peeking.
THx-RNMarsh
THx-RNMarsh
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As a secondary control, have someone else put the labels on the boxes and keep that secret from the testers.
As a tertiary control, do 3 boxes, with two as duplicates. 😀
As a tertiary control, do 3 boxes, with two as duplicates. 😀
Just as I showed the FR at listening location in my listening room with JBL M2 speakers....you can do same with over-the-ear headphones using a probe mic (B&K) or tiny Panasonic capsule inside the cup area... mic goes to EQ system.
It does not mean much to have a great HP Amp and have to listen to HP with lumpy, bumpy FR. Here is a Dr Dre headphone response -- before and after.
The 'after' sounds a whole lot better after being EQ'ed to be flat at the ear canal, BTW.
View attachment Dr Dre Headphone EQ with Audyssey -1.pdf
THx-RNMarsh
It does not mean much to have a great HP Amp and have to listen to HP with lumpy, bumpy FR. Here is a Dr Dre headphone response -- before and after.
The 'after' sounds a whole lot better after being EQ'ed to be flat at the ear canal, BTW.
View attachment Dr Dre Headphone EQ with Audyssey -1.pdf
THx-RNMarsh
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