Scott is in sales now?
SY, this is unfair... after all Scott is a worthy designer, but instead of his amps being made by some small audio manufacturer his stuff gets sent to a silicon foundry and sold by a big IC manufacturer.
If ur gonna be fair, then Scott has to design a bit of audio gear, and then either make it himself (start a company) or else sell or license the design to some existing audio company...
_-_-bear
More than a few "small" audio companies use his amps and his designs. Not to mention his design of the capacitor test that John still relies on (including design of the critical chip). I'm sorry, but John's condescending attack on Scott's experience, creativity, and abilities is flat out ridiculous and he demeans himself by it. Scott is much too polite to respond in kind, but I'm not nearly as nice as him. 😀
John has done some fine work, but Scott's continuing record of innovation and contributions to the wider art of analog design are on a totally different level. It's like me sneering at Feynman.
John Iverson is the subject here and his contributions to audio design.
Of course, 'firsts' in making a new type of circuit design seem 'obvious' later in time, by just about everybody. John Iverson put his energy into making 'firsts' rather than just contributing in a corporate culture.
When it comes to IC's, the '60's produced another 'maverick' called Bob Widlar. He could work at Fairchild, National, and perhaps other big firms, but he was exceptional in this. It is because they needed him and he needed access to the fancy and expensive equipment necessary for IC production to do what he did well.
I would say that the majority of audio or linear IC's rely on the basic topology that he first developed with the National 101 op amp, in the 1960's.
Many discrete audio designers rely on the complementary differential input stage, independently developed by John Iverson and me, back in the late 1960's, before it was ever put into print. This was another 'first' at the time, considered 'obvious' today.
This is why I respect John Iverson, as he was always pushing the envelope, rather than the alternative.
Of course, 'firsts' in making a new type of circuit design seem 'obvious' later in time, by just about everybody. John Iverson put his energy into making 'firsts' rather than just contributing in a corporate culture.
When it comes to IC's, the '60's produced another 'maverick' called Bob Widlar. He could work at Fairchild, National, and perhaps other big firms, but he was exceptional in this. It is because they needed him and he needed access to the fancy and expensive equipment necessary for IC production to do what he did well.
I would say that the majority of audio or linear IC's rely on the basic topology that he first developed with the National 101 op amp, in the 1960's.
Many discrete audio designers rely on the complementary differential input stage, independently developed by John Iverson and me, back in the late 1960's, before it was ever put into print. This was another 'first' at the time, considered 'obvious' today.
This is why I respect John Iverson, as he was always pushing the envelope, rather than the alternative.
Actually I read it as they misread each others comments. Scott is polite, John can excite easily, so adding heat is not really productive. Sy you seem on your bad days to be in between. I have been in situations where I was the coolest head in the room, to the point where others thought I did not understand the situation, and looking back I can't believe some of the stupidity that I missed when emotional.
As to a real (Insert your own most derogatory word!),
John Iverson looks to be about as much to be avoided as possible. He made many claims, those where I understand what he was doing technically are quite believable. Then there as those that are unsupported (such as attending MIT) and indicate personality problems. Then there is some stuff on the web about him that really does meet the criterion of lunacy.
Personally I think the most likely explanation is he was in trouble with the IRS at a time when they were ruthless. (Congress actually toned them down a bit since!) He decided to set up a cover to explain his disappearance and create a fall guy. He signed all assets over to his ex-wife who he had divorced just to protect those assets. He started his plan and someone then killed him. My bet is the police don't have a good case against anyone and are not trying too hard, once they looked at him.
It is either that or he found out about the aliens who really run the planet and has been put in suspended animation until the news goes public.
So discussing his circuits may be fair game, but I have always thought that design shows one's personality. So I assume his amplifiers sounded dark and ran way too hot.
ES
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You mean discrete designs or his opamps??
Not sure Scott reaches to Feynman, but glad you like him! 😀
I'm not for Scott or for John. John, as we all know is an irascible type - but he has the effect of bringing out things from others, which certainly is the case here on DiyAudio. No John, this thread is dead imo.
John says stuff... but heck he is the John Curl!!
_-_-bear
Was reel to reel considered a good source?
I remember listening to my cousin's Sony Portable Reel to Reel with headphones in the dark. It was Elton John's Yellow Brick Road. It sounded magical.
I listened to hhoyt's station (didn't have Scott's luck with the Indian music). It was jazz and I heard static sounds and wondered . . . what is that . . . then remembered . . . oh, that's the good old popping sound of vinyl. Tape was a step up?
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I remember listening to my cousin's Sony Portable Reel to Reel with headphones in the dark. It was Elton John's Yellow Brick Road. It sounded magical.
I listened to hhoyt's station (didn't have Scott's luck with the Indian music). It was jazz and I heard static sounds and wondered . . . what is that . . . then remembered . . . oh, that's the good old popping sound of vinyl. Tape was a step up?
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Darn right I am! However I want to apologize to Scott for overreacting, not having previously read the 'Absolute Sound' article, myself. I knew John Iverson from personal contact and from some of my friends. I have seen his 'shop' and some of his efforts, which were beyond my understanding. He may have been eccentric, but he was brilliant as well.
As far as Scott is concerned, I am continually told to not confront him about problems like FM in amps, etc, by people who know and like him as he is, and that I would only annoy him with these exotic concepts like Bybee brings out, and other much more exotic concepts, that I can't even get a grip on, at least, yet.
Wire? Bear knows that there can be nothing to it! ;-)
As far as irascible, you bet! I have been avoiding my Prozac lately, thanks for reminding me.
Ed, keep on truckin' with your assessment of John Iverson. As small reminder to everyone, remember that EVERY class A amp runs hot, mine too. Class B is not as good as class A, and I have a switch on my JC-1 amp to show the difference.
As far as Scott is concerned, I am continually told to not confront him about problems like FM in amps, etc, by people who know and like him as he is, and that I would only annoy him with these exotic concepts like Bybee brings out, and other much more exotic concepts, that I can't even get a grip on, at least, yet.
Wire? Bear knows that there can be nothing to it! ;-)
As far as irascible, you bet! I have been avoiding my Prozac lately, thanks for reminding me.
Ed, keep on truckin' with your assessment of John Iverson. As small reminder to everyone, remember that EVERY class A amp runs hot, mine too. Class B is not as good as class A, and I have a switch on my JC-1 amp to show the difference.
OK guys let’s not let this get personal again. I certainly appreciate any kind comments but let me make it clear, nothing John said was the least bit offensive to me ( I know him too well). There is a side issue of how much personal eccentricity is one going to tolerate and still admire someone’s accomplishments. I find Iverson over the line and his body of work is clouded enough to make me wonder what the truth is. By all accounts he regularly made up stories that would shame Burt and I. His story reminds me a lot of an MIT student from around 1966 ( I wish I could remember the name, I think it was Jeff Sites) who supposedly built a Nike missile in his dorm room. The whole story ended up being highly embellished. Jim Williams even has an entire electronics package from a Nike splayed out on his wall as “art”. He also did some “secret” work for the South African government and supposedly was paid with a brick of gold. I’m only repeating hearsay on both sides but you get the point. Ten years ago I did find him via Google but now I can find nothing with any permutation of his name. There was nothing but some mundane sci-fi fan posts. Over the years several people have recounted his story to me each time more grandiose, you would think he was Blofeld incarnate by now.
So did Iverson design an Apollo guidance module or was he a tech soldering breadboards? Raytheon had a regular tuition reimbursement program, remember MIT tuition was about 15% of an engineers salary then ($1750 in 1968). Was this an offer to cover an MIT education in return for a work commitment? It would mean a lot more today. It’s pretty easy to make up folklore.
BTW modular op-amps far predate the IC versions. Stating a simple fact in no way detracts from Bob Widlar’s accomplishments.
So why don’t we look at some schematics and discuss them?
So did Iverson design an Apollo guidance module or was he a tech soldering breadboards? Raytheon had a regular tuition reimbursement program, remember MIT tuition was about 15% of an engineers salary then ($1750 in 1968). Was this an offer to cover an MIT education in return for a work commitment? It would mean a lot more today. It’s pretty easy to make up folklore.
BTW modular op-amps far predate the IC versions. Stating a simple fact in no way detracts from Bob Widlar’s accomplishments.
So why don’t we look at some schematics and discuss them?
I admire what works, not how one adjusts to society. That's just me, but it works.
I get fooled sometimes, because I am open to all new ideas, at least to a point. My 'reality' target is always shifting, but always to 'what works' for me, and I don't pay much homage to 'double blind testing' that shows their company's products almost always wins the listening contest.
I get fooled sometimes, because I am open to all new ideas, at least to a point. My 'reality' target is always shifting, but always to 'what works' for me, and I don't pay much homage to 'double blind testing' that shows their company's products almost always wins the listening contest.
I was the beneficiary of this Raytheon program when attending UMASS as an EE student, working as an RF technician at the Five College Radio Astronomy Laboratories. Originally awarded as a grant/work/study job. I had a few interesting visits from Raytheon regarding future employment which I never would commit to, and for which I was subsequentally deemployed.
Excellent idea, that is the reason I have read this thread, and I apologize if I have helped veer it away from it's excellent discussion of audio circuitry...
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC FM-89.3
UNC Chapel Hill
www.wxyc.org
1st on the internet
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I hope to get back to the Sony radio, when it arrives. The repair manual is already here on this thread, thanks again, and it should be easy to improve the audio output section. That should be fun.
Yes, thanks for that link!
John, I've got my tuner open ... I'm ready when you are.
Maybe you already mentioned this, but will you sharing your analog preamp mod, or will I being designing my own?
😱
John
Scott,
When I started at Carnegie Mellon in the deep second level dungeon of the electrical engineering building, off in a side room was an Athena Launch Control Computer that somehow had been acquired and reassemble by a student "club." It took up an entire room, had less smarts than a digital watch and was only able to be re-programed to play tic-tac-toe. It was so large you actually stood inside it!
The entire concept of two guys living inside this thing waiting to end the world is the single real scariest thing I have ever seen.
It ended up going to the Smithsonian!
As to Nike missiles they really were no more advanced than many hobby rockets of today, just a lot bigger! But I am pretty sure they never sold as surplus the actual engines. So in my slightly insane way I hope that story continues to grow.
Jan,
It was one of the dumbest kids in my class who went to work for the military contractor who built the missiles you had. Glad we never found out how they really worked.
ES
Mine should arrive tomorrow - don't know how soon I'll get to it though. It also looks like the power supplies need improvement and just replacing those 1 uF ceramic caps in the audio section should go a long way.
Did you know that some of the Nike radars had potentiometers in the pedestal for azimuth feedback that were 3 feet in diameter? I once had one of these, gave it away to my dispair. Can you imagine a preamp with a 3 feet potmeter? Would probably put even a Blowtorch to shame 😉
jd
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