Doesn't always work, most unfortunately.
I did whatever I could think of to get my 28 year old son into music, never mind which genre, including setting him up with some quality electronics, but failed dismally despite trying since he was 3 years old.
He never even switched on the system in his room. It just lies there gathering dust.
I think it IS possible to say some things sound more accurate than another; Or more like real musical instruments playing in a room. It is not always just a preference of like vs dislike. but you do have to know how an instrument actually sounds and not all audiophiles know (limit this to acoustic sounds). Knowing what it should sound like is important and you are on your way to knowing which equipment is more accurate.
Access and use of test and measurement equipment offers the listener an advantage in learning/training ones hearing for the added affects of distortion and their levels. And, with some small amount of fussing, one can manipulate the harmonics of an amp circuit to produce varying amounts and different harmonic relationships between odds and evens. Then when you re-listen, you learn the sound of what you measured and how it affects the sound. Soon, you can hear which distortion type is which in a music playback system. At that point, you are further on your way to Knowing which system is the more accurate and why.
THx-RNMarsh
Access and use of test and measurement equipment offers the listener an advantage in learning/training ones hearing for the added affects of distortion and their levels. And, with some small amount of fussing, one can manipulate the harmonics of an amp circuit to produce varying amounts and different harmonic relationships between odds and evens. Then when you re-listen, you learn the sound of what you measured and how it affects the sound. Soon, you can hear which distortion type is which in a music playback system. At that point, you are further on your way to Knowing which system is the more accurate and why.
THx-RNMarsh
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dvv,
That is a shame that your son doesn't want to listen to music. I can assure you that I have to make an effort sometimes to speak over the headphones to get one of the kids attention, most American kids are listening to music all the time, they should get cochlear implants the way they are always hooked up to those cheap ear buds! The real problem for the music companies is how to sell the music at a price they are willing to pay, they are smart enough to use Torrents or such to get their music and aren't going to pay Apple or whomever $1.00 per song, they have thousands of tunes on their SD cards. I don't have the answer to that part of the puzzle but I will again say they are listening to music however they get it.
That is a shame that your son doesn't want to listen to music. I can assure you that I have to make an effort sometimes to speak over the headphones to get one of the kids attention, most American kids are listening to music all the time, they should get cochlear implants the way they are always hooked up to those cheap ear buds! The real problem for the music companies is how to sell the music at a price they are willing to pay, they are smart enough to use Torrents or such to get their music and aren't going to pay Apple or whomever $1.00 per song, they have thousands of tunes on their SD cards. I don't have the answer to that part of the puzzle but I will again say they are listening to music however they get it.
Dvv, funny that you mention your son. I have a kind of opposite situation. I am 36 and among my friends my approach to hi-fidelity could be considered unusual. (they listen to mp3 on cheap headphones on their smart phones and it ends up there). I had a tendency to spend a dispropirtionate share of my income for hi-fi, but on the other hand I use a cheaper phone. I turned to Diy because my father never listens to music. Now retired, he was a banker living in a world of numbers and accounting and he could never allow me to spend a huge amount of money for stock hi-fi, as to him it was a waste of money. Instead he was buying me electronics books and parts, but I "cheated" and fell in love with amplifiers and speakers rather than computer programming or accounting....
Agree. BUT - from an accidental visit to a 're-mix for digital' facility outside London, in a non- treated office with simple double glazing and a pair of Spendor domestic speakers driven by a Quad 303 as the sole monitor system, an ancient Philips console tape machine playing 15ips copy stereo masters and a desk which had but four channels I know that the 're-mastering' process was no more than application of simple tone controls! The two track digital equipment appeared to be equally amateurish, although I knew nothing about the process back then. I suspect that the bulk of back-catalogue was treated in much the same way….the availability of CDs of these back catalogue re-mixes were released at such a fast rate that the capable studios were unlikely to have been able to handle the workload.
I must add that that re-mix room was within 2 miles of Heathrow and directly under an approach path for incoming 'planes.
On the assumption that this was common practice back then, it is small wonder that early back-catalogue CDs had such a dreadful name.
There is a very easy subjective measure - whether the speakers aurally become completely invisible, no matter how close you are to them when you listen - and irrespective of the volume. When this is achieved then the playback system is effectively 'transparent' and you are only listening to the content of the recording; then, essentially all recordings are "good enough" to be able to easily discern the quality of the sources of the music, and only gross distortion in the recording or transfer process prevents the sense of "real musical instruments playing in a room" ...
the latter half misses big time - mic selection, placement are 1st order "artistic" choices - have lots more to do with "the sound of the instrument" than half decent analog electronics small distortions
The more highly regarded recordings were done more carefully.
There are always the sleazy among us.
yes they do. but.
A good way to learn what various added distortions do to the sound is to make adjustments to the gear, measure, and then re-listen. Even if the location of the mic isnt the best or the speakers or room isnt the best etc. And, certainly there are 'better' or more accurate ways to record and play back sound fields than with just 1 or 2 channels.
THx-RNMarsh
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Right-Left brain.... I scored exactly 50-50%.
I just got back from Asia (5 weeks) today.
THx-RNMarsh
That's why. ...Try again next month. ;-)
Only Left brained people know the exact answer.
You mean DNA?
That’s abnormal for most of the people.
It seems that as the night comes, I turn left brained ( I hope a few beers will rectify it
George
So far you're the only member in this thread that I should discuss the closest with.
Measure and then listen may be counter productive since it sets an expectation at some level. Most of the traditional research suggests .15% or some such is the threshold. Richard Clark had a demo (I avoided when given the chance) to show that 50% THD was not audible on a pair of Altec VOTA's.
If .01% distortion of some sort has an audible effect why has it never shown in the academic/research tests? Is there something about extended casual listening that makes infinitesimal distortions more audible than controlled experiments with a really low background noise etc. of the biologist's laboratory?
I hear differences in components and can identify them pretty consistently most of the time I think. I have some doubt I could hear them in properly controlled circumstances however. I have also been unable to hear differences I thought I could hear even 10 minutes earlier, especially when everything is very carefully adjusted. And my choices are not the popular consensus often. It all leaves me with questions about the validity of my judgments or anyone's for that matter.
I was at a wonderful opera performance yesterday. Many aspects are not reproducible. Some almost can be reproduced. From where I sat (the $200 seats) I thought it was a little soft and distant. I have sat closer and it sounds brighter and more immediate. Those seats are beyond my means today. The best bass in that hall is actually the back of the upper balcony, the cheapest seats. Up there you need a telescope, opera glasses are not adequate at that distance. Which is right? Do I select sound based on what seats in the hall I can afford? And what is the reality I should seek in reproduction?
Adjust the FFT display for a distortion of what ever you would like to listen to. More 2H or more 3H or same of each.... listen each time to get the character of the affects. no expectations there. Just learning what various harmonic structure and levels do to the sound.
I would sit close and where the sound is best balanced. But, that is not learning what amplifier distortions sound like... rather more about acoustics.
THx-RNMarsh
Yes, it is a shame, but also a bit of a mystery. My wife is a doctor, but she loves her classical music and fado dearly, and she listens almost every day on her room system, an H/K 680 integrated amp, Sony player, JBL Ti600 floorstanding speakers and van den Hul wiring. So, he had both sides to inherit love for music from, not just one.
I am somewhat compensated by my good wife. She is open to many kinds of music, and I actually got her to like Waylon Jennings (whom I love to listen to, as well as Johnny Cash), Leonard Cohen and Grateful Dead's song "Ripple", plus megatons of 60ies and 70ies pop/rock. All uncompressed, in WAV format even in the car, which, I am pleased to say, is unexpectedly good as is from a mass manufacturer like Chevrolet. In the previous car, I had to install a JBL speaker system and Alpine electronics to get some good vibes.
With the currenty low prices of flash memory, I have much of it on memory sticks even in the car, and it sure plays nicely when we travel. We both like to be surrounded by music.
Specify the parts and live with the performance. Or, specify the performance and live with the parts. The eternal dichotomy
Jan
No dichotomy for me Jan. I will in all probability use something like Philips used in their Black Tulip AH280 preamp, that section works like it's hard to believe. The whole preamp is worth it for the RIAA section alone.
My Marantz 3250B preamp is no slouch either. Or the Luixman C-03. It's not like I have limited choice.
But I want to do a standalone unit, and I really want to go to town with it. Just for the hell of it.
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