The products are well made and on a plot of subjective performance, with highest to the right and abysmal to the left, they easily cream the bottom 80 % (the high end is ~5 % of the market on a good day)
And, most customers like the look and can easily discern the sound quality is better than those boom boxes from the S and P company in J and the S and K guys from K land. And, they last for years. I have friends who have 15 year old Bose countertop CD players that still work great. I've bought maybe 4 boom boxes off family over the last 15 years. Every one fell apart after 18 months. Never again. I only buy Bose if I want a consumer grade product that will last. We have 3 of their products in our house. The noise cancelled sound crap against my AT - but they sure as hell work ok for me on the plane.
So, if you are an audio snob, turn your nose up at their stuff.
Last time I looked they did about $ 1 billion in sales . . . Pretty damn good in my book.
And, most customers like the look and can easily discern the sound quality is better than those boom boxes from the S and P company in J and the S and K guys from K land. And, they last for years. I have friends who have 15 year old Bose countertop CD players that still work great. I've bought maybe 4 boom boxes off family over the last 15 years. Every one fell apart after 18 months. Never again. I only buy Bose if I want a consumer grade product that will last. We have 3 of their products in our house. The noise cancelled sound crap against my AT - but they sure as hell work ok for me on the plane.
So, if you are an audio snob, turn your nose up at their stuff.
Last time I looked they did about $ 1 billion in sales . . . Pretty damn good in my book.
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+1
Think 'market positioning'
Some people are happy to make $3000 on 100 amplifiers a year
Others prefer to make $30 1 million pieces a year.
Remember, the price volume curve ain't linear. It's more log like.
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Thank you very much Joachim.
This can be me. What’s the problem?
Everyone seems to forget that Dr. Bose initial success came from investing on the loudspeaker’s direct sound / reflected sound percentage. How many large scale manufacturers did explore psychoacoustics at that time?
I guess this –20 dB refers to distortion generated by the drivers, not the amplifier.
Results of Earl Geddes research on the distortion perception threshold are equally controversial , no?
Perception
George
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The measurement has to be accompanied by a “Acc.:xxx standard, para yyy”
See some cut and paste from a standard (trying to **** you off Ed
)George
>Edit. Oops. The four asterisk word starts with 'p'
Attachments
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Agreed. But physics hasn't. The load line technology is still the same, so the output VI space and protection is not changed significantly. How close the load takes the output to the edge of the soa space is still the same.
It matters not to me, it was just a request. Your knee jerk attacks are tiring.
Typical JC, so what's new? He always does that. Don't bother me a tad, don't bother many here.
How does one show "zero experience"? Proving a null?
It's not a case of "have to", it's my opinion. You don't have to like it. And you don't have to tone it down, either. It was just my friendly request.
Telling you what my opinion of your knee jerk attacks on JC is rhetoric now? Look, a squirrel..
I've not complained, another diversion. I stated that the sine sweep does not consider transient response, and this is why I prefer horns over tuned bass. Quite simple. Waterfalls would tell more, but I suspect the normal reader won't understand them much.
Then why did you say that you pulled 100++ twisted pairs through a 3 inch conduit?? Again, you're always changing what you state.. edit: to be fair, you did state "a stadium design used 100 pair in a 3 inch conduit, and used those numbers in your silly "test question". Anybody with experience at designing and actually pulling wires through tray/conduit systems would not be able to even types such ridiculous numbers. I can't get 40 #10 pairs through a 3.5 inner diameter conduit without giving the inspectors a headache. But my cables are all LSZH, and a PITA to bend and pull.
Low voltage? Hmm, didn't you say it's a stadium? Must be a pretty quiet stadium.
Gee, two 4 inch conduits vs your initial statement of one 3 inch. Sheesh, talking about technical stuff with you is like trying to squash a drop of mercury on a tabletop.
Where does the 6dB crosstalk increase rule come from? What frequency, what line and load impedance, what cable lay, what insulation thickness, what length of intimate contact, what relative twist pitches between cables...
You do understand the real problem, no?
jn
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He might, if he hadn't been dead this long
Jan
You incorrectly believe the cloud is the final stage of the internet.
I can't wait till I can e-mail Tesla...so much to ask..
jn
JN
I know this reading bit is hard for you... The 3" was what was specified, as the system actually had to work I insisted on three 4" conduits. That at least got me the 2.
The 6 db is based on measurements, that you wouldn't understand anyway... (Belden does them.)
There was more stuff in your last post, so I guess you really like wasting your time talking to yourself.
Oh I see you believe in ghosts, maybe that was it. Ghosts are okay trolls not so.
I know this reading bit is hard for you... The 3" was what was specified, as the system actually had to work I insisted on three 4" conduits. That at least got me the 2.
The 6 db is based on measurements, that you wouldn't understand anyway... (Belden does them.)
There was more stuff in your last post, so I guess you really like wasting your time talking to yourself.
Oh I see you believe in ghosts, maybe that was it. Ghosts are okay trolls not so.
If you examine my edit, you will see that I also corrected my statement to indicate that you said "specified", as opposed to what I first said. It's hilited in blue, and I posted the edit a minute before your post. Ships in the night, so to speak..
The last time you provided measurements, you were off by 3 orders of magnitude and didn't know. So how can I trust your next "measurement". You've provided no details.
But honestly, the details of how you performed this test is of interest to me. I forced the guys here to segregate cables based on function, and it'd be nice to see actual data from others on how much magnetic coupling the twisted pairs had inter-cable. The EMC guys don't really consider magnetic coupling of twisted pairs, they tend to think that since they have common centroids, there is no coupling... Reality is a tad different... So, your lack of segregating cables is not something I would do given my concerns, hence my not being able to provide test data.
Yah, those technical questions are really tough, eh?
Honestly, I hadn't suspected that talking you on technical matters to be a waste of time. If you say it is, who am I to challenge?
There's a significant difference between joking and beliefs. Sad you have to try this level of diversion.
jn
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Perhaps Ed can post the relevant information that Belden provides in what I assume is a technical specification on a specific wire type. They usually don't make stuff up, but it is very specific in detail and wire construction.
JN,
You have to remember that some clowns are only here to make noise, and that isn't electrical noise though it is still background noise. Always complaining about what John says but adding nothing to the conversation but space on a page.
As far as Bose I would say that early on Dr. Bose made some psycho acoustic studies that showed that when a certain band of frequencies was missing that it would not be readily apparent and would not be missed. I think this study and determination has been the basis of all of the products from that company ever since. There is a reason that they have fought for so long to keep anyone from publishing any independent comparative testing, I have never seen a published AB test with a Bose product, they will sue the pants off anyone attempting to publish such information. Once two speakers are put in an AB test and one has limited bandwidth and the second doesn't the acoustic trick they use is exposed, the listener will immediately hear the difference as long as the second set of speakers does not have excessive distortion levels. How else have they been able to sell 3" direct radiators and a 10" subwoofer as a full range system, it is smoke and mirrors but works fine in isolation. If you ever study the Bose radio and the way they do the bass you would see it is tuned to have two resonant bass frequencies to produce that semblance of wide band bass frequencies but is actually two narrow band bass notes, the Bose bass cannon was bass on this principal of a tuned tube of two lengths.
JN,
You have to remember that some clowns are only here to make noise, and that isn't electrical noise though it is still background noise. Always complaining about what John says but adding nothing to the conversation but space on a page.
As far as Bose I would say that early on Dr. Bose made some psycho acoustic studies that showed that when a certain band of frequencies was missing that it would not be readily apparent and would not be missed. I think this study and determination has been the basis of all of the products from that company ever since. There is a reason that they have fought for so long to keep anyone from publishing any independent comparative testing, I have never seen a published AB test with a Bose product, they will sue the pants off anyone attempting to publish such information. Once two speakers are put in an AB test and one has limited bandwidth and the second doesn't the acoustic trick they use is exposed, the listener will immediately hear the difference as long as the second set of speakers does not have excessive distortion levels. How else have they been able to sell 3" direct radiators and a 10" subwoofer as a full range system, it is smoke and mirrors but works fine in isolation. If you ever study the Bose radio and the way they do the bass you would see it is tuned to have two resonant bass frequencies to produce that semblance of wide band bass frequencies but is actually two narrow band bass notes, the Bose bass cannon was bass on this principal of a tuned tube of two lengths.
JN,
Belden lists crosstalk parameters in their datasheets. You might want to compare the same cable unshielded and with an overall shield.
Why do you confuse a demonstration with a measurement. Remember Berlow's law, it probably was demonstrated with a voltaic pile.
Wht don't you take the next two days off and try to stretch your imagination.
BTY you might google sarcasm every so often!
Belden lists crosstalk parameters in their datasheets. You might want to compare the same cable unshielded and with an overall shield.
Why do you confuse a demonstration with a measurement. Remember Berlow's law, it probably was demonstrated with a voltaic pile.
Wht don't you take the next two days off and try to stretch your imagination.
BTY you might google sarcasm every so often!
"JN,
You have to remember that some clowns are only here to make noise, and that isn't electrical noise though it is still background noise. Always complaining about what John says but adding nothing to the conversation but space on a page."
How a few people think on this thread...............everyday in fact.
You have to remember that some clowns are only here to make noise, and that isn't electrical noise though it is still background noise. Always complaining about what John says but adding nothing to the conversation but space on a page."
How a few people think on this thread...............everyday in fact.
IIRC they lost the major suit. http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/466/485/case.html Jeez I didn't know they took it all the way to the supreme court.
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Bose won all the lower court stuff CU took it there! What was decided was that no damages were due as it was not malicious!
But then CU's evaluation of specialty items has always been interesting. My last look was when they tested screwdrivers and rated the screwball the best!
I like my screwball, someone gave me one as a gift. I think the circuit court of appeals overturned the first trial before the SC, but in any case I think there is a precedent now for disclosing product idiosyncrasies/failings as a purely consumer service without threat of retribution.
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