Very Cool...I will do so.
Do you think there would be any interest in other guys on this thread building this along with us?
We might even do a group buy to source parts and thereby save money, get better parts, the whole bit.
This is exciting to me...I'm as giddy as 16 year old about to have his first date.
Heaven forbid we actually turn this thread into a forum for actually building something...
Thanks Mr. Curl
M
The boards will make everything sound like Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue album, clearly.John,
The Jim's audio boards I got are blue, will that make what I play sound kind of blue? Affect component values? I like the Blues - Buddy Guy, Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters,
They also have Borbely's very good jfet/fet shunt regulator boards, but some devices are getting hard to get for it such as K170/J74 and J148/K982
John,
The Jim's audio boards I got are blue, will that make what I play sound kind of blue? Affect component values? I like the Blues - Buddy Guy, Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters,
They also have Borbely's very good jfet/fet shunt regulator boards, but some devices are getting hard to get for it such as K170/J74 and J148/K982
Does anyone have a link for "Jim's Boards"?
I'm just pretty sure I found the wrong "Jim"
Arlon is supposed to be very good. But every time I mention anything other than FR-4 to board houses, their eyes glaze over and they change the subject. I can understand their reluctance with Teflon, with the dimensional issues and cold flow.
Coincidentally, I just picked up 2 this morning. Couldn't help my selfVery Cool...
Do you think there would be any interest in other guys on this thread building this along with us?...
Thanks Mr. Curl
I also got a couple of the JC-2 boards
Coincidentally, I just picked up 2 this morning. Couldn't help my self
I also got a couple of the JC-2 boards
Great, then several of us are getting geared up to build it.
We probably should see how many people might like to take the plunge also.
We could perhaps do a group buy and get stellar parts if there was enough interest. Mr Curl said that maybe we could stir up some enthusiasm with this project so a poll might be a good place to start if someone could show me how.
Thanks
Mike
Well, what would be wrong with having a new run of boards built per your spec if we have enough interest.
Forgive my ignorance of that isn't doable.
From the way you answered I assume you think I am suggesting some impropriety
I mean like materials...teflon for example...spacing...things like that. Or if you think those are ok they way they are we can use them. He only had 10 left though.
Different interpertation but not real science ;-)
As I said 20 pages or so ago, my ability to keep up is not here right now, and I would like to highlight FAS's contributions here as they are an important perspective, but I need a bit more time than I have to distill my thoughts into a concise comment.
I do feel compelled to comment on Sys's overview though.
I wonder how straight forward Sy's observations really are. I would be curious as to how tightly aligned the sound would be if you provided only a schematic and a strict BOM to a collection of seasoned professionals here to construct. My guess is the results would be enlightening.
Consider what the range in results would be if you opened up the parameters to allow variances in only passive components.
Then opened it up to each being able to dial in their own operating points/biasing while maintaining a basic integrity to the design intent (Class A versus AB is what I'm getting at here)
From my experience the audible variations would be (are) quite interesting. To say that any competently engineered gain stage/power supply will sound identical to another is simplified. I guess this is where Sy can repeat his assertion from his experience, but then my experience leads me to think that the results would be a bit more complicated.
Using the challenging recordings as FAS is suggesting as source material guarantees the results will truly be all over the map, which is why I zeroed in on his comments relative to my experience.
Forget double blind testing. Anyone interested in hearing the differences between these various aspects need only, as a suggestion, build a good preamp/ amp (even the JC-80 clone John suggests) as a control and a simple switching setup (that maintains signal integrity) and switch in real time between the various iterations.
The audible differences, even subtle ones, are easily discerned. Which is right or wrong, or whatever parameter of interest, can be sorted out over days or even years but the differences are easily heard. Sure you can fool yourself and misinterpret what you are hearing; although if you are really interested in improving your personal experience with your music the truth shines through over time.
This aspect of audio design is what is fundamental to the discussion here and until one builds two different versions of the same design and compares them in real time for themselves there is no validity to their comments.
Those that chose getting closer to their music as a hobby and can afford to experiment with various implementations put out there by the true artists can sort out these differences. These are the people that appreciate John's insight and creations.
Yes there are a majority of snake oil salesmen that hide behind excess as a replacement for experience or talent, what is different than any other experience in this world of ours, but there are a few nut cases out there (usually under recognized and under compensated) who do this for the passion of it all. Those who put in the effort get to enjoy the results of their insight.
Frank appears to enjoy his music! Try Johnny Winter And Live, It's My Own Fault, or Ten Years After Recorded Live "Help Me" the intro... for spooky live rock recordings that transport you to the venue.
I guess that's all. Mike
As I said 20 pages or so ago, my ability to keep up is not here right now, and I would like to highlight FAS's contributions here as they are an important perspective, but I need a bit more time than I have to distill my thoughts into a concise comment.
I do feel compelled to comment on Sys's overview though.
I wonder how straight forward Sy's observations really are. I would be curious as to how tightly aligned the sound would be if you provided only a schematic and a strict BOM to a collection of seasoned professionals here to construct. My guess is the results would be enlightening.
Consider what the range in results would be if you opened up the parameters to allow variances in only passive components.
Then opened it up to each being able to dial in their own operating points/biasing while maintaining a basic integrity to the design intent (Class A versus AB is what I'm getting at here)
From my experience the audible variations would be (are) quite interesting. To say that any competently engineered gain stage/power supply will sound identical to another is simplified. I guess this is where Sy can repeat his assertion from his experience, but then my experience leads me to think that the results would be a bit more complicated.
Using the challenging recordings as FAS is suggesting as source material guarantees the results will truly be all over the map, which is why I zeroed in on his comments relative to my experience.
Forget double blind testing. Anyone interested in hearing the differences between these various aspects need only, as a suggestion, build a good preamp/ amp (even the JC-80 clone John suggests) as a control and a simple switching setup (that maintains signal integrity) and switch in real time between the various iterations.
The audible differences, even subtle ones, are easily discerned. Which is right or wrong, or whatever parameter of interest, can be sorted out over days or even years but the differences are easily heard. Sure you can fool yourself and misinterpret what you are hearing; although if you are really interested in improving your personal experience with your music the truth shines through over time.
This aspect of audio design is what is fundamental to the discussion here and until one builds two different versions of the same design and compares them in real time for themselves there is no validity to their comments.
Those that chose getting closer to their music as a hobby and can afford to experiment with various implementations put out there by the true artists can sort out these differences. These are the people that appreciate John's insight and creations.
Yes there are a majority of snake oil salesmen that hide behind excess as a replacement for experience or talent, what is different than any other experience in this world of ours, but there are a few nut cases out there (usually under recognized and under compensated) who do this for the passion of it all. Those who put in the effort get to enjoy the results of their insight.
Frank appears to enjoy his music! Try Johnny Winter And Live, It's My Own Fault, or Ten Years After Recorded Live "Help Me" the intro... for spooky live rock recordings that transport you to the venue.
I guess that's all. Mike
Ahh, yes, I recognise that description ...
On another forum I was copping it from all directions for daring to suggest that that attention to detail rather than excessive expenditure could possibly be a solution ...
The good bit is, on an optimised system that you can enjoy seriously unpromising material at truly realistic volume levels, and be totally transported. At what some may consider deafening or ridiculous volumes these recordings do conjure up the venue completely, the soundstage gives the impression that there is no limit to how large it can expand, the end wall behind the speakers completely evaporates in every sense ...
At the moment I've got Thin Lizzy, Live and Dangerous out from the library, that does this sort of thing nicely ...
Frank
If they're so easy to discern, why do they disappear in the test formats where people are easily able to distinguish tiny differences in level and frequency response, as well as data compression, phase, and polarity. Why do you not trust your ears and somehow need nonauditory cues?
If you can't hear it using your ears alone, you can't hear it.
Again, I don't want to limit your enthusiasm, but think (or check out) before you jump. Teflon is expensive, difficult to work with, and these board layouts are only 1/2 the sophistication of real Vendetta or CTC boards. And my layout partner can't make one for free, he has to make a living too, and is paid by a number of audio manufacturers for his services.
Mike, your heart might be in the right place, but relative to the CTC Blowtorch circuit, it just does not work the way you think it might. There are NO mods that could improve the overall quality of the design, only compromises are possible. It's like saying that anyone can build a V12 engine for a name sports car. Just give the basic design to the local mechanics and they will perhaps 'improve' it. '-)
No problem, it was just an idea. I just got the vibe from you and a couple of other posts that these weren't up to snuff and if we are starting out with a weak foundation...that we could fix. Well, there goes my gung-ho again.
And I would never ask anyone to work for free.
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