John,
No. I have no single "favourite" resistor. However, say, in a volume control (or feedback loop) they offered a good balance between cost and performance.
My personal "favourite" resistors are non-inductive copper-alloy high precision wirewound resistors available from Rohpoint and Elisabethütte exclusively, lest I am corrected by others with superior knowledge regarding availability.
As these have limited dissipation they are "even stevens" with Painton mil spec NI wirewounds (non-magnetic BTW) I bought as surplus from Cricklewood Electronics in the 90's at 50 pence per pc for the 9 Watt with significant discount for buying whole boxes (don't ask, they long sold out - mostly to me) and which turned out to have silver leadouts (no joke).
If I am out of these (I bought the available stock and keep it for personal use) I use Mills NI Wirewounds.
I also use either NOS or current production Carbon Composition resistors in some position and tend to use generica where "it does not matter a lot".
Beyond that what I use depends on budget and purpose.
The Tokyo Ko-On Board resistances are also very nice, but basically genuine unobtanium outside Japan.
For the record, personally I neither "get" Vishay resistors nor Black Gate Capacitors.
My favourite capacitors use Tin or Tin/Lead foil (Tin/Lead is nixed since ROHS) and any plastic, or silver and plastic/mica. If we must use MKP or other metalised cap's I usually require custom manufacture as generics have too many compromises in the mechanical domain.
For electrolytics Elna Silmic II, followed by other Elna's for audio, Sanyo Os-Con for Digital where it matters, for the rest Nippon Chemi Con made in japan (they have a number of series) and certain series MIJ by Sanyo.
It is my experience that capacitors sonic effects by far swamp resistors, but Capacitor issues relate more often to mechanics, while resistor problems are electronic in nature.
As for Preamp's, I'm generally either "Maximalist Active" (including multiband Tone, Loudness etc.) or "Aggressivey Passive" with a preference for Wirewound Multiturn or stepped resistor controls superseded by the "transformer volume control (silver wire preferred)".
Though realistically, I live happily with a 10K Noble Pot and a Grayhill goldplated solid silver selector in a non-magnetic box wired with "silver in air" and silver plated CMC connectors (I actually put others in there, including Cardas and some other big names, 4 inputs and 3 outputs, but I only use the CMC silver ones), not the final word, but darn good for the cash outlay (mostly build from junk).
I generally prefer silver plated connectors (I cannot find/afford solid silver) and plastic XLR over RCA and use silver wire (goldplated if needed to protect the surface) everywhere I can. For RCA I happily use slightly modified Neutrik Pro, others exist. I am not extreme as Sensei Kondo got in his last years and replace component wires with silver, too hard work.
I would make output and other transformers with silverfoil secondary windings, oiled paper dielectric, copper wire primaries and high nickel permalloy cores and classic 1930's Studio Grade German "Disk Winding", if I could find any way to swing it... Cost on something like this would make the Japanese Boutique stuff look decidedly cheap though, so unless you want to invest a million or two into the business, forgeddaboutit....
My solder BTW has been Multicore Brand 4% Silver eutectic Lead-free since I did an extensive listening tests on solders in the Mid 90's. Never had to change for ROHS...
But with all this I am rather pragmatic for commercial designs, I only push through of my personal prejudices what I can get through into commercial reality, which usually excludes really extreme components.
So much listening is needed to find the one that will do best for the budget. And yes, it's onerous and boring, but commercially necessary.
Ciao T
No. I have no single "favourite" resistor. However, say, in a volume control (or feedback loop) they offered a good balance between cost and performance.
My personal "favourite" resistors are non-inductive copper-alloy high precision wirewound resistors available from Rohpoint and Elisabethütte exclusively, lest I am corrected by others with superior knowledge regarding availability.
As these have limited dissipation they are "even stevens" with Painton mil spec NI wirewounds (non-magnetic BTW) I bought as surplus from Cricklewood Electronics in the 90's at 50 pence per pc for the 9 Watt with significant discount for buying whole boxes (don't ask, they long sold out - mostly to me) and which turned out to have silver leadouts (no joke).
If I am out of these (I bought the available stock and keep it for personal use) I use Mills NI Wirewounds.
I also use either NOS or current production Carbon Composition resistors in some position and tend to use generica where "it does not matter a lot".
Beyond that what I use depends on budget and purpose.
The Tokyo Ko-On Board resistances are also very nice, but basically genuine unobtanium outside Japan.
For the record, personally I neither "get" Vishay resistors nor Black Gate Capacitors.
My favourite capacitors use Tin or Tin/Lead foil (Tin/Lead is nixed since ROHS) and any plastic, or silver and plastic/mica. If we must use MKP or other metalised cap's I usually require custom manufacture as generics have too many compromises in the mechanical domain.
For electrolytics Elna Silmic II, followed by other Elna's for audio, Sanyo Os-Con for Digital where it matters, for the rest Nippon Chemi Con made in japan (they have a number of series) and certain series MIJ by Sanyo.
It is my experience that capacitors sonic effects by far swamp resistors, but Capacitor issues relate more often to mechanics, while resistor problems are electronic in nature.
As for Preamp's, I'm generally either "Maximalist Active" (including multiband Tone, Loudness etc.) or "Aggressivey Passive" with a preference for Wirewound Multiturn or stepped resistor controls superseded by the "transformer volume control (silver wire preferred)".
Though realistically, I live happily with a 10K Noble Pot and a Grayhill goldplated solid silver selector in a non-magnetic box wired with "silver in air" and silver plated CMC connectors (I actually put others in there, including Cardas and some other big names, 4 inputs and 3 outputs, but I only use the CMC silver ones), not the final word, but darn good for the cash outlay (mostly build from junk).
I generally prefer silver plated connectors (I cannot find/afford solid silver) and plastic XLR over RCA and use silver wire (goldplated if needed to protect the surface) everywhere I can. For RCA I happily use slightly modified Neutrik Pro, others exist. I am not extreme as Sensei Kondo got in his last years and replace component wires with silver, too hard work.
I would make output and other transformers with silverfoil secondary windings, oiled paper dielectric, copper wire primaries and high nickel permalloy cores and classic 1930's Studio Grade German "Disk Winding", if I could find any way to swing it... Cost on something like this would make the Japanese Boutique stuff look decidedly cheap though, so unless you want to invest a million or two into the business, forgeddaboutit....
My solder BTW has been Multicore Brand 4% Silver eutectic Lead-free since I did an extensive listening tests on solders in the Mid 90's. Never had to change for ROHS...
But with all this I am rather pragmatic for commercial designs, I only push through of my personal prejudices what I can get through into commercial reality, which usually excludes really extreme components.
So much listening is needed to find the one that will do best for the budget. And yes, it's onerous and boring, but commercially necessary.
Ciao T
T it is amazing how similar our component 'tastes' are, given that we are 1/3 around the world from each other and raised in completely different educational systems. It is our COMMON experience that creates this 'similarity' I think, and the fact that both you and I have to compete in the audio marketplace, sometimes even with each other.
If and when I have a conversation with Charles Hansen, we discuss components, solder, etc. just like you and I are discussing here. There is an amazing similarity to what Charles and I do and use the same, as well, when we have never visited our respective offices or worked for the same company.
Anyway, back to Holco. I discovered Holco through the article in 'HFN' back in the 80's and decided to try them in the Vendetta phono preamp. I still use them for EQ, today, but I have the OLD Holcos that are completely non-magnetic, in stock for this. The new Holcos are slightly magnetic, but that would not stop me from using them, except that I was told by others that they do NOT sound as good as the OLD Holcos. I tend to believe this, but I have never done a double blind test to PROVE it. Better safe than sorry.
I find that the OLD Holcos were well made and used a slightly thicker copper lead than many other 1% resistors, and I could easily get them at 0.5% at slight additional cost, so I bought a bunch more than 20 years ago.
Later, working with Parasound, I specified a HOLCO 47K or 100K feedback resistor for the power amps that were associated with me. I chose Holco(old) because it always sounded to me, slightly 'soft' and this balanced slightly the slight 'solid state' sound that was present. Better to balance the errors than extend them. Also, the body and leads of the Holco were substantially more massive, giving a lot of thermal capacitance, something that I have found useful for feedback resistors.
We have also found that the old Resista resistors, especially 1/2W, to be excellent resistors. I used them virtually everywhere in the CTC Blowtorch. The Vendetta being partially Holco (old) and Resista for the rest. This was also a good combination.
Today, I am taking Ed Simon's advice of using Dale (Vishay)resistors that are reasonably low cost and seem to work well. To give you an idea of how well, just look at the May-June issue of TAS on pages 98-100 to find a reviewer's assessment of the electronics made with these resistors. Seems to pass the listening test.
If and when I have a conversation with Charles Hansen, we discuss components, solder, etc. just like you and I are discussing here. There is an amazing similarity to what Charles and I do and use the same, as well, when we have never visited our respective offices or worked for the same company.
Anyway, back to Holco. I discovered Holco through the article in 'HFN' back in the 80's and decided to try them in the Vendetta phono preamp. I still use them for EQ, today, but I have the OLD Holcos that are completely non-magnetic, in stock for this. The new Holcos are slightly magnetic, but that would not stop me from using them, except that I was told by others that they do NOT sound as good as the OLD Holcos. I tend to believe this, but I have never done a double blind test to PROVE it. Better safe than sorry.
I find that the OLD Holcos were well made and used a slightly thicker copper lead than many other 1% resistors, and I could easily get them at 0.5% at slight additional cost, so I bought a bunch more than 20 years ago.
Later, working with Parasound, I specified a HOLCO 47K or 100K feedback resistor for the power amps that were associated with me. I chose Holco(old) because it always sounded to me, slightly 'soft' and this balanced slightly the slight 'solid state' sound that was present. Better to balance the errors than extend them. Also, the body and leads of the Holco were substantially more massive, giving a lot of thermal capacitance, something that I have found useful for feedback resistors.
We have also found that the old Resista resistors, especially 1/2W, to be excellent resistors. I used them virtually everywhere in the CTC Blowtorch. The Vendetta being partially Holco (old) and Resista for the rest. This was also a good combination.
Today, I am taking Ed Simon's advice of using Dale (Vishay)resistors that are reasonably low cost and seem to work well. To give you an idea of how well, just look at the May-June issue of TAS on pages 98-100 to find a reviewer's assessment of the electronics made with these resistors. Seems to pass the listening test.
Isabellenhütte (hoffentlich)
Bürklin carries the entire Isa-Plan range for more than a decade, i'd have to wade through a pile of their catalogues to be more accurate.
Great shop, back in '88 i got my first Vishay S102K (dressed) from them.
30ft long marble counter at the Düsseldorf shop, for that Shah of Persia sensation (DM12,40 for a 0.1%, about twice that amount for a 0.005%)
I'm glad that many people here have tried to find 'exceptional' resistors to use for their designs.
I will give you a small history of my own:
Back in 1970, usually AB baked carbon (as normally used by Ampex, because they had tested them and found them to be pretty good).
1973, Mark Levinson convinced me that 1% metal films had gotten cheap enough to use in 'quality' audio. His and my collaboration put us 'on the map', partially because of Mark's high standards of building, parts and soldering. It got us #4 of 'The 12 most significant preamplifiers of all time' pp. 39-46. TAS May-June 2012
1974-1977, I used 1% resistors from many sources: Dale, IR, etc.,etc.
1977-1979, I got access to a whole variety of precision resistors, $0.10 ea some .005%, all seemingly NASA spec. and a certain portion with glass envelopes and gold plated leads. In any case, I bought thousands. Still have most of them, today.
1980, made an experimental preamp with really cool looking resistors with glass cases, gold plated leads, using old Levinson modules for the line amp, and something like the Symmetry Xover for a two part phono stage. P&G serial line pot for volume control. Unit FAILED to sound good. JC-2 was better. What is wrong? (guess what? At least in my opinion.)
1981-2. Developed JC-80 with IR resistors, then found a problem with a change in manufacturing. Grey turned to green as I remember. App engineer ASSURED me that their was no significant change. Guess what? Measured excess 1/f noise with DC loading (typical application) between the old and new parts.
1983 Turned toward Resista parts at surplus, $0.01 each and found that they sounded really good, were available in a number of values, locally.
Started to use them with Vendetta Research.
I have stuck with Resista parts for several decades, including both surplus and new. Unfortunately, Resista is no more, so for major designs, I have relied on Ed Simon's measurements to make a choice. Seems to work.
I will give you a small history of my own:
Back in 1970, usually AB baked carbon (as normally used by Ampex, because they had tested them and found them to be pretty good).
1973, Mark Levinson convinced me that 1% metal films had gotten cheap enough to use in 'quality' audio. His and my collaboration put us 'on the map', partially because of Mark's high standards of building, parts and soldering. It got us #4 of 'The 12 most significant preamplifiers of all time' pp. 39-46. TAS May-June 2012
1974-1977, I used 1% resistors from many sources: Dale, IR, etc.,etc.
1977-1979, I got access to a whole variety of precision resistors, $0.10 ea some .005%, all seemingly NASA spec. and a certain portion with glass envelopes and gold plated leads. In any case, I bought thousands. Still have most of them, today.
1980, made an experimental preamp with really cool looking resistors with glass cases, gold plated leads, using old Levinson modules for the line amp, and something like the Symmetry Xover for a two part phono stage. P&G serial line pot for volume control. Unit FAILED to sound good. JC-2 was better. What is wrong? (guess what? At least in my opinion.)
1981-2. Developed JC-80 with IR resistors, then found a problem with a change in manufacturing. Grey turned to green as I remember. App engineer ASSURED me that their was no significant change. Guess what? Measured excess 1/f noise with DC loading (typical application) between the old and new parts.
1983 Turned toward Resista parts at surplus, $0.01 each and found that they sounded really good, were available in a number of values, locally.
Started to use them with Vendetta Research.
I have stuck with Resista parts for several decades, including both surplus and new. Unfortunately, Resista is no more, so for major designs, I have relied on Ed Simon's measurements to make a choice. Seems to work.
This is interesting;
I like the FM caps just as well as the Os-cons. And the Vishay PTF56 or PTF65 resistors as much as or better than many mentioned. Haven't tried the Mills. Yet.
For wiring I too have been using solid silver but a very close second is; I have access to top quality inverter grade (high voltage) class H (180C) magnet wire used for servo motors. For fun I thought I'd try it. Worked great and a lot less $ so I use the magnet wire in gear I make for friends.
Mike
I like the FM caps just as well as the Os-cons. And the Vishay PTF56 or PTF65 resistors as much as or better than many mentioned. Haven't tried the Mills. Yet.
For wiring I too have been using solid silver but a very close second is; I have access to top quality inverter grade (high voltage) class H (180C) magnet wire used for servo motors. For fun I thought I'd try it. Worked great and a lot less $ so I use the magnet wire in gear I make for friends.
Mike
John, will do and have a setup ready to do it. The reason is the following. I don't have an AP2 or comparable machinery, but thanks to the democratization of technology, with an EMU0404 and it's excellent microphone amplifier, it is now possible to look at amazingly small signals in the comfort of your own home and still have money to eat.
The main problem though is that of calibration. You can see that something is going on and what it is, but you don't know how large it is in absolute terms. I use this setup to monitor progress in designing a super low noise/ low impedance balanced power supply. In order to compare magnitudes, I calibrate the measurements on the power supply under design by comparing them with those of a metal film resistor of a known value in the same measuring setup. I am now down to the equivalent noise of a 120 Ohm resistor (1.4 nV/Sqrt(Hz)). But, if some resistors exhibit excess noise, this might introduce a systematic error in the way I now tend to calibrate my measurements, giving me a false sense of accomplishment.
Is there a ball park figure for the deviations you or others have measured in metal film resistors from different makes?
vac
And of course remember that resistor excess noise requires current flow. Which has led to it being called "current noise" despite how misleading this is.
When I once foolishly used some thick film 0805 parts with substantial d.c. current flowing, in a little powered subwoofer, the noise was higher than thermal by about 20dB! I tried some other brands and some were better, and bigger was better, but thick film in general needs to be avoided in signal chains where feasible. OK for logic pullups
Hi,
So you will not notice the excess noise. Try running a few 10'd mA of DC, for fun...
Ciao T
So you will not notice the excess noise. Try running a few 10'd mA of DC, for fun...
Ciao T
That's the thing about liquid metal (cables), you see.
As you crank the load, the signal mass directly affects/interacts with the free floating individual molecules, and they polarize into alignment under dynamic loading. The conductive fluid moves in sync with the signal mass, the two dynamically integrate at the basic transfer level. which is very different than a 'frozen lattice structure solid'.
Thus....... in the fluid transfer system, noise goes DOWN under load.
Instead of, like in the case of a solid - the noise becomes more of an issue as the dynamics increase.
The exact opposite occurs.
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Thorsten, I'd like to test that, but running a current through a resistor without creating artifacts that would swamp the measurements creates some challenges. As I see it, you would need a noise free current source with an output impedance significant higher than the resistor being measured, and these two requirements might bite. Comparative testing to judge between different brands would not be that hard though, using different brands in a high current feedback loop. Perhaps a nice little experiment for a rainy Sunday afternoon.
vac
Hi John,
Could you share with us your priorities as to which you might use in which order when it comes to various mods? TIA.
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