I have normally praised JLCPCB highly, for being super professional, cost efficient and the best out there for DIY prototypes.
How frustrating it is to now place an order and the get a mail saying I need to pay an additional 43 USD (ca. double up).
They have now placed an "option" in the ordering for via size (I did not see this), where you are charged extra for sizes smaller than 0.3 mm hole and 0.45 mm via diameter, this in order to do a 4-Wire Kelvin Test.
It's not so much that it costs extra to handle a PCB which is more difficult to produce, what is frustrating is that all my designs lately have been made with JLCPCBs recommended minimum via size of 0.2/0.4 mm, which has been produced without problem and without extra cost until now.
Now I will have to change all designs to avoid the very large extra cost.
If you change from 0.2/0.4 to 0.3/0.45, you will have hundreds of warnings and errors in your DRC check which will have to be solved one by one .... damn!
You might get away by using a 0.3/0.4 via, but it is not the best design I think to have only 0.1 mm larger ring then hole. .....
How frustrating it is to now place an order and the get a mail saying I need to pay an additional 43 USD (ca. double up).
They have now placed an "option" in the ordering for via size (I did not see this), where you are charged extra for sizes smaller than 0.3 mm hole and 0.45 mm via diameter, this in order to do a 4-Wire Kelvin Test.
It's not so much that it costs extra to handle a PCB which is more difficult to produce, what is frustrating is that all my designs lately have been made with JLCPCBs recommended minimum via size of 0.2/0.4 mm, which has been produced without problem and without extra cost until now.
Now I will have to change all designs to avoid the very large extra cost.
If you change from 0.2/0.4 to 0.3/0.45, you will have hundreds of warnings and errors in your DRC check which will have to be solved one by one .... damn!
You might get away by using a 0.3/0.4 via, but it is not the best design I think to have only 0.1 mm larger ring then hole. .....
"LowPrecision Type" have larger markup for extra small vias than High Precision types (6++ layers) and the markup scales with board size.
And in general I would say for anything smaller than 0.3/0.6mm vias you need to really have good reasons why you chose them in the first place. Only reason I could think of is very small pitch BGA fanout routing...
And in general I would say for anything smaller than 0.3/0.6mm vias you need to really have good reasons why you chose them in the first place. Only reason I could think of is very small pitch BGA fanout routing...
I can live 0.3 mm no problem.
The point was that they just changed it .... so if you have made a PCB for whatever reason with 0.2/0.4 mm which was free just before, then you are in for a surprise next time you order .... and I think such a change is not cool. If it was a few usd extra ... ok .... but it is not.
And when designing a new PCB be extra careful with the sizing of vias
The point was that they just changed it .... so if you have made a PCB for whatever reason with 0.2/0.4 mm which was free just before, then you are in for a surprise next time you order .... and I think such a change is not cool. If it was a few usd extra ... ok .... but it is not.
And when designing a new PCB be extra careful with the sizing of vias
Is it systematical or triggered by a threshold described here ?
https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/15-...46.2023045777.1696869720-125285290.1673902229
https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/15-...46.2023045777.1696869720-125285290.1673902229
I guess I'm lucky. For hand routed 2- and 4-layer analog PCBs, I've been using the same default setup that shipped with KiCad ten years ago: 16 mil via holes with 24 mil diameter copper surround. It has never been a problem or extra cost with any of the fab shops I've used: Seeed Studio, DorkBotPDX, elecrow, DirtyPCBs, Shenzhen2U, SmartPrototyping, ALLPCB, JLCPCB, OSH Park. Just yesterday I taped out Gerbers to JLCPCB with the attached via sizes and was not charged extra.
Dodged a bullet apparently.
_
Dodged a bullet apparently.
_
Attachments
JLCPCB has included options under the ordering process .... see below.
Got a mail today returning on my questions saying:
Notice: Additional charges will apply when the via hole＜0.3mm and the via diameter≤0.4mm.No additional charge when the via hole＜0.3mm, and via diameter＞0.4mm.
e.g. additional charge is needed for 0.2mm hole/0.4mm diameter, while 0.2mm hole/0.45mm diameter is free.
But I'll stick to min 0.3 mm hole diameter from now on, so either 0.3/0.5 or 0.3/0.6
I got my order canceled, and have updated by design to 0.3/0.5mm and I'm ready to order again
Got a mail today returning on my questions saying:
Notice: Additional charges will apply when the via hole＜0.3mm and the via diameter≤0.4mm.No additional charge when the via hole＜0.3mm, and via diameter＞0.4mm.
e.g. additional charge is needed for 0.2mm hole/0.4mm diameter, while 0.2mm hole/0.45mm diameter is free.
But I'll stick to min 0.3 mm hole diameter from now on, so either 0.3/0.5 or 0.3/0.6
I got my order canceled, and have updated by design to 0.3/0.5mm and I'm ready to order again
Attachments
For my newest board, I got an "Engineering Fee" of ~€26 with €5.xx normal price
(4 layers, 85*102 mm) without explanation from the oh so friendly pop up guy.
Since I got no info about the cost structure, I experimented. Yes, my time costs more,
but I felt pissed at. Reducing the 102 mm to 99 mm removed that. The board is
now harder to produce. I don't care.
(4 layers, 85*102 mm) without explanation from the oh so friendly pop up guy.
Since I got no info about the cost structure, I experimented. Yes, my time costs more,
but I felt pissed at. Reducing the 102 mm to 99 mm removed that. The board is
now harder to produce. I don't care.
If I'm not mistaken, there are yet new fees on JLCPCB:
4 layer 100x100mm is still 7 usd
But for PCBA they seem to keep adding fees:
New is a fee for boards smaller then 70x70mm for which extra material / rails are added, and you need to pay for haveing these removed
Now all componets are added a fee for feeder loading. Before it was only for "extended components" 3 usd for each type, now it is 1.5 usd for al types ... this really adds up
SMT assembly cost extra
25 usd to start off on all PCBA
Separate cost for stensil
Last time I payed ca 56 usd, for almost the same PCB with 2 mounted boards including shipping and customs. They where a bit larger, at 70x70 mm. It was the same construction but with some mistakes.
Now it amounts to 108 usd before shipping and customs!
... and shipment up by some 40%
ca 3 months since my last order.
Think it is time to look for alternatives.
4 layer 100x100mm is still 7 usd
But for PCBA they seem to keep adding fees:
New is a fee for boards smaller then 70x70mm for which extra material / rails are added, and you need to pay for haveing these removed
Now all componets are added a fee for feeder loading. Before it was only for "extended components" 3 usd for each type, now it is 1.5 usd for al types ... this really adds up
SMT assembly cost extra
25 usd to start off on all PCBA
Separate cost for stensil
Last time I payed ca 56 usd, for almost the same PCB with 2 mounted boards including shipping and customs. They where a bit larger, at 70x70 mm. It was the same construction but with some mistakes.
Now it amounts to 108 usd before shipping and customs!
... and shipment up by some 40%
ca 3 months since my last order.
Think it is time to look for alternatives.
Attachments
Ok I take it back ..... I must have made a mistake and Ended up with a "Standard PCBA" instead of "Economic PCBA" where the setup price is 25USD and not 8USD
SORRY JLCPCB
I think what might have happened is that I palyed with the color buttons to see what a different color to Green would be, and this has automatically changed the board from Economic to Standard ..... and when shifting back to green it does not change the overall category automatically ...
Now it looks more like it ...
We are back in business
I better read more on
https://jlcpcb.com/capabilities/pcb...S2*MTcwMzQwOTMzMS4zLjEuMTcwMzQxMTE2NS4wLjAuMA..
SORRY JLCPCB
I think what might have happened is that I palyed with the color buttons to see what a different color to Green would be, and this has automatically changed the board from Economic to Standard ..... and when shifting back to green it does not change the overall category automatically ...
Now it looks more like it ...
We are back in business
I better read more on
https://jlcpcb.com/capabilities/pcb...S2*MTcwMzQwOTMzMS4zLjEuMTcwMzQxMTE2NS4wLjAuMA..
Attachments
After I ordered a board with JLCPB ( 100x70 4 layers) that was 59.60 usd, not included shipping ( total order was 105), I quoted the same board with the same components of JLCPCB, and price doubled. I do not know if the PCBs from PCB way compare to the standard or to the advanced in JLCPCB. Left JLCPCB , it took one week from order to deliver, and right the quote from PCBway "The lead time of the Assembly will be about 28-35 days. (Long lead time mainly because of the long components sourcing time, assembly is under the premise of getting all the components, even with the express assembly, it can only quicker 3-5days, pls note.)". This is a lm317/lm337 regulator, all component, no sophisticated or hard to get parts.
Hi, Baldin, yes that is correct. Actual order from jlcpcb without shipping, 59.60 on the left and quote from PCBWAY on the right. After selecting the cheapest shipping, applying a 9 usd coupon and paying Florida sales tax ( similar to vat) it totalled 107 usd.
I have asked PCBWAY about the shipping cost but I will not know the price until Lunar new year is over. In their web site they have some decent shipping with a good ratio between speed and cost (10 day tedjcdo cost) options such as Ali Express shipping and also very low cost boat shipping (30 days) for about 23 usd.
In JLCPCB the only shipping type available was courier 3-5 days for about 50-70 Usd per 1kg. The cheapest shipping was as much as the boards(52 shipping for 57 boards).I run an estimate for 20 boards and the shipping was close to 100 usd.
Both orders use the same exactly BOM with lscs/jlcpcb component numbers.
I have asked PCBWAY about the shipping cost but I will not know the price until Lunar new year is over. In their web site they have some decent shipping with a good ratio between speed and cost (10 day tedjcdo cost) options such as Ali Express shipping and also very low cost boat shipping (30 days) for about 23 usd.
In JLCPCB the only shipping type available was courier 3-5 days for about 50-70 Usd per 1kg. The cheapest shipping was as much as the boards(52 shipping for 57 boards).I run an estimate for 20 boards and the shipping was close to 100 usd.
Both orders use the same exactly BOM with lscs/jlcpcb component numbers.
Attachments
Last edited:
I’ve been very happy with JLCPCB’s quality so far, and was impressed with the small vias. The only downside was the shipping is priced as much as the product. It took some fiddling with the options to see how prices were affected.
I have cnc bits from 0.1mm to 1.0mm and don’t find them expensive. I only suspect they used the same, but it was interesting to learn that some fabrication houses are now using laser to cut the smallest holes in the PCBs.
I have cnc bits from 0.1mm to 1.0mm and don’t find them expensive. I only suspect they used the same, but it was interesting to learn that some fabrication houses are now using laser to cut the smallest holes in the PCBs.
When I order I get an option to use Global Direct Standard Line for shipping, which of course takes longer than e.g. DHL, but I'd rather save a bit ... for EU there is addition of VAT/Tax, which is of course as it should be.
There used to be some shipping services around half the price, but also double the time (China Postal Service or something).
There used to be some shipping services around half the price, but also double the time (China Postal Service or something).
