I just picked up a lancer S99
and my idea is to add a horn section on top like this :
instead of modifying the speaker itself.
I would like to modify the crossover point from 2khz to 1khz and then I want the horn to take over from 1khz above. is that possible?
but I am very green in this so i have these questions:
1 - where do i buy those wooden horns and with what dimensions? how can i make sure they are appropriate for this application?
2 - what should i do about the old crossover? are there new ready made ones to buy?
to be clear my thinking is to disable the midrange/twitter driver on the speakers and only use their woofer and ad a horn (if i can afford it then a wooden one) on top. has it been done before? is it a good idea? is it doable? any advice?
Admittedly I am out of my depth here.
I don't know if the horn should be in its own enclosure or the horn would just sit on top in the open?
should it be a 1", 1.5" or 2" compression driver?
horns come in all sizes and shapes and im not sure which one would work here.
and my idea is to add a horn section on top like this :
instead of modifying the speaker itself.
I would like to modify the crossover point from 2khz to 1khz and then I want the horn to take over from 1khz above. is that possible?
but I am very green in this so i have these questions:
1 - where do i buy those wooden horns and with what dimensions? how can i make sure they are appropriate for this application?
2 - what should i do about the old crossover? are there new ready made ones to buy?
to be clear my thinking is to disable the midrange/twitter driver on the speakers and only use their woofer and ad a horn (if i can afford it then a wooden one) on top. has it been done before? is it a good idea? is it doable? any advice?
Admittedly I am out of my depth here.
I don't know if the horn should be in its own enclosure or the horn would just sit on top in the open?
should it be a 1", 1.5" or 2" compression driver?
horns come in all sizes and shapes and im not sure which one would work here.
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What you are proposing sounds good (pun intended). I think 1kHz may end up being a good place to cross.
I don't think you will find a crossover already built to work well. Horns and compression drivers may have impedance peaks that should be suppressed before you cross.
The type of horn you have chosen can sound good (and look good), though it also has limitations.
I don't think you will find a crossover already built to work well. Horns and compression drivers may have impedance peaks that should be suppressed before you cross.
The type of horn you have chosen can sound good (and look good), though it also has limitations.
thanks but i have not really chosen a type of horn, i was hoping people with experience and knowledge can point me t the appropriate choice. that is just a picture that I thought demonstrates my thinking but I dont really know what type it is or what dimensions and specs it has, or where to buy it from.
I started reading on the e-wave project just a couple days ago and found it fascinating but my understanding was that for econowave a tweeter was addes to the vintage box by modifying the box and aso it is still not clear to me what exactly the crossover for the e-wave mods come from.
maybe I can use the minidsp HD that i have for the crossover. at least to begin with. in this way i will bypass all the crossover in the box and the tweeter, basically it will just be a woofer in a box (which is what i bought it for) an then I will be sitting the horn on top of the cabinet.
would these do?
JBL 2446J 8 OHMS WITH HORNS 2380A AND BRACKERS 2508A | eBay
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holy crap look at this gorgeous walnut sex appeal:
1 pair Altec Lansing 1505B Multicell Horns wood walnut, for Altec 288/291 driver | Home Theater | Merchantville, New Jersey 08109 | Audiogon
1 pair Altec Lansing 1505B Multicell Horns wood walnut, for Altec 288/291 driver | Home Theater | Merchantville, New Jersey 08109 | Audiogon
An active crossover may get you closer quicker, so if you have it then use it, at least for the tweeter. I don't know if the woofer is already crossed sufficiently.
If it was me, I would consider turning the box upside down and adding a baffle above it for the horn.
The bi-radial has a 2" throat. This is not necessary for a 1kHz cross and it might not be as good up high as a 1". Also, the slot is not a good thing.
The first link, what I might want is something more square than rectangular with straighter walls. You might find some examples in the e-wave thread by user zilch.
If it was me, I would consider turning the box upside down and adding a baffle above it for the horn.
The bi-radial has a 2" throat. This is not necessary for a 1kHz cross and it might not be as good up high as a 1". Also, the slot is not a good thing.
The first link, what I might want is something more square than rectangular with straighter walls. You might find some examples in the e-wave thread by user zilch.
Beautiful, yes. I don't think the exponential expansion is needed unless you want very high levels, but some users here like them all the same.
The LE14s will make a GREAT foundation for your project. I am with AllenB. Push your way through the Econowave thread. You will find all the information you need using your LE14s a the basis of the project. In the thread you will find different horns, drivers and crossovers that apply directly to what you are planning.
I have built a dozen E-waves and they're all keepers, but the ones I use everyday are the LE14 based pair. In a 4 cu. ft. cabinet, they will plat into the low 30s and cross at approx. 1kH.
I have built a dozen E-waves and they're all keepers, but the ones I use everyday are the LE14 based pair. In a 4 cu. ft. cabinet, they will plat into the low 30s and cross at approx. 1kH.
Thanks for the advice guys, that is exactly what I am doing and I gotta say that looking all the projects that have been done before was very enlightening. Zilch has done such great service by starting that project.
It seems to me that I was going about finding the correct horn configuration incorrectly. I originally thought that I have to choose the horn geometry and material first and then get the compression driver that is compatible, but it seems like there is a level of arbitrariness to the actual geometry of the horn, so I guess i should choose the compression driver for my application first and then get the waveguide/horn that goes with it. is that correct?
if it is so then there is large selection of compression drivers available, is there an outstanding budget option that ya'll might want to point me towards?
It seems to me that I was going about finding the correct horn configuration incorrectly. I originally thought that I have to choose the horn geometry and material first and then get the compression driver that is compatible, but it seems like there is a level of arbitrariness to the actual geometry of the horn, so I guess i should choose the compression driver for my application first and then get the waveguide/horn that goes with it. is that correct?
if it is so then there is large selection of compression drivers available, is there an outstanding budget option that ya'll might want to point me towards?
It depends on your point of view. For example after considering the many constraints in detail, the shape and size can become very fixed.
Not every horn available is going to be adequate. Some of the more interesting qualities would be the opening flare at the beginning, followed by a straighter section, then a roundover (which you can increase fairly easily yourself). The size of the horn can be important in the crossover region.
Not every horn available is going to be adequate. Some of the more interesting qualities would be the opening flare at the beginning, followed by a straighter section, then a roundover (which you can increase fairly easily yourself). The size of the horn can be important in the crossover region.
this guy has done exactly what i want to do:
Hpm-Econo Redo, Aka Kpm-10.0 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
but for him the horn section is sealed in a box. i guess im gonna have to dive deep and start reading on the theory of horns
Hpm-Econo Redo, Aka Kpm-10.0 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
but for him the horn section is sealed in a box. i guess im gonna have to dive deep and start reading on the theory of horns
the horns that I chose are hORNs tractrix-600:
they seem to facilitate experimenting with various crossover points between around 1k and look gorgeous.
two more immediate issues:
1 - refoaming the hardened surrounds
2 - getting rid of these pesky tiny binding posts on the driver. I am getting ready to cut the crossover network out and install kimber cable from the modern beefy spade accomodating binding posts (in the rear of the box that I just installed) straight to the woofer but I cant find any speaker cable that is thin enough to fit. this is quite annoying honestly. has anyone ever broken off old binding posts on these JBLs and replaced them with something modern? I don't quite have the heart to do it but I also cant stand these binding posts
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
they seem to facilitate experimenting with various crossover points between around 1k and look gorgeous.
two more immediate issues:
1 - refoaming the hardened surrounds
2 - getting rid of these pesky tiny binding posts on the driver. I am getting ready to cut the crossover network out and install kimber cable from the modern beefy spade accomodating binding posts (in the rear of the box that I just installed) straight to the woofer but I cant find any speaker cable that is thin enough to fit. this is quite annoying honestly. has anyone ever broken off old binding posts on these JBLs and replaced them with something modern? I don't quite have the heart to do it but I also cant stand these binding posts
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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so I decided to give this a try:
the crossover is at 500hz with slope 48db using miniDSP 2X4HD.
the S99's have their tweeter and their crossover taken out so basically they are now a woofer only in a box. but the twist is that before buying the horn i decided to give this configuration a try. above 500hz is handled by this custom speaker. crossoverless 3 inch full range driver in a transmission line . the results were breathtaking. the JBL is driven by either a 25 watts gainclone or a 60 watts TPA 3116 chip amp while the above 500hz is handled by the pair on 300b monoblcoks. the freedom that i have to alter the sound to my liking is great. better than any hardware or software equalization i have ever tried. I tried higher crossover points and it works very well but I like this speaker so much that I ended up pushing the JBL lower and lower. more experiments will definitely ensue.
the crossover is at 500hz with slope 48db using miniDSP 2X4HD.
the S99's have their tweeter and their crossover taken out so basically they are now a woofer only in a box. but the twist is that before buying the horn i decided to give this configuration a try. above 500hz is handled by this custom speaker. crossoverless 3 inch full range driver in a transmission line . the results were breathtaking. the JBL is driven by either a 25 watts gainclone or a 60 watts TPA 3116 chip amp while the above 500hz is handled by the pair on 300b monoblcoks. the freedom that i have to alter the sound to my liking is great. better than any hardware or software equalization i have ever tried. I tried higher crossover points and it works very well but I like this speaker so much that I ended up pushing the JBL lower and lower. more experiments will definitely ensue.
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It's the old, I want that big baffle working for me in the midrange, vs continuity coming down from the smooth highs.
This is the reason that a regular waveguide is usually conical. It's the consistency of the baffle (directivity) and the match it makes to the woofer.
Don't let me put you off the LeCleach though, they are very nice used right.
This is the reason that a regular waveguide is usually conical. It's the consistency of the baffle (directivity) and the match it makes to the woofer.
Don't let me put you off the LeCleach though, they are very nice used right.
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