Hey folks,
So, this is a quite ridiculous scenario I have here. I bought a pair of 4412's off ebay and of course like everything on ebay there is something VERY wrong. It happens to be that I got two right sides. What! you ask?
Yes. These speakers are supposed to be mirror images of each other, as folks might know, so no matter how I set these up, the mid range and hf drivers aren't ever aligned with each other. I'm ostensibly using them for mixing, not for casual listening.
My question is, for people with experience with these speakers/cabs, would it be possible to disassemble the cab of one speaker and flip the front baffle to create a mirror image pair, and then put the drivers back in?
I need to know pretty soon so I can get back to the seller. I got a good deal on them and I've been looking for awhile, so I'd like to go this route if possible, but I could send them back and start over.
Anyway, let me know what you guys think.
Thanks a bunch.
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So, this is a quite ridiculous scenario I have here. I bought a pair of 4412's off ebay and of course like everything on ebay there is something VERY wrong. It happens to be that I got two right sides. What! you ask?
Yes. These speakers are supposed to be mirror images of each other, as folks might know, so no matter how I set these up, the mid range and hf drivers aren't ever aligned with each other. I'm ostensibly using them for mixing, not for casual listening.
My question is, for people with experience with these speakers/cabs, would it be possible to disassemble the cab of one speaker and flip the front baffle to create a mirror image pair, and then put the drivers back in?
I need to know pretty soon so I can get back to the seller. I got a good deal on them and I've been looking for awhile, so I'd like to go this route if possible, but I could send them back and start over.
Anyway, let me know what you guys think.
Thanks a bunch.
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Actually it might be easier to fill the cutouts of the tweeter and mid-range in one cabinet with the appropriate thickness of MDF or Baltic birch, then cut new holes to mirror image the pair.
Here's some pictures. Imagine making this a mirror image of itself.
Looks pretty intensive. Bummed to see there is a conical chamber behind where the mid range goes. Not because it's not a good design. Just because it makes this much more difficult.
Trying to figure out what to do here fairly quickly so thanks for any advice anybody can offer.
I'd have to cut that chamber out of one side and some how insert it in the exact opposite spot.
Madness?
Looks pretty intensive. Bummed to see there is a conical chamber behind where the mid range goes. Not because it's not a good design. Just because it makes this much more difficult.
Trying to figure out what to do here fairly quickly so thanks for any advice anybody can offer.
I'd have to cut that chamber out of one side and some how insert it in the exact opposite spot.
Madness?
Attachments
One channel upside down?
It will not be pretty but turning one of the speakers upside down and listening height at a point midway between the mid/tweet and bass might quite possibly make for a good setup sound-wise.
//Anders
It will not be pretty but turning one of the speakers upside down and listening height at a point midway between the mid/tweet and bass might quite possibly make for a good setup sound-wise.
//Anders
or keep surfing E-Pray the next pair you find could well consist of two "lefts" and then you'd have two pairs!
That's what I thought also: The seller must have two left ones for sale as well.
Like in that old Joke:
"Hi John I just noticed that you are wearing a funny pair of socks: a red one and a blue one !" "Oh, Yes I know, but the strange thing is that I even have a second pair like that in my drawer !"
Regarding E-Pray: I always thought it was E-Prey ! 😉
Regards
Charles
Like in that old Joke:
"Hi John I just noticed that you are wearing a funny pair of socks: a red one and a blue one !" "Oh, Yes I know, but the strange thing is that I even have a second pair like that in my drawer !"
Regarding E-Pray: I always thought it was E-Prey ! 😉
Regards
Charles
But, why ? There are folks who are sure that the speakers [with the drivers offset on the baffle] shouldn't be mirrored. Probably the previous owner was one of those - He/she might even purchased the same speaker for the purpose !!
Best bet on those [type of ] speakers is to make the drivers vertically on axys.
Best bet on those [type of ] speakers is to make the drivers vertically on axys.
pico - I think numerous models from the JBL 4NNN "vintage studio monitors" series would fail that criteria.
note that a Google search will show 3 & 4ways that appear to have been designed with option for mirror imaging in mind - one of the first in such a slideshow
note that a Google search will show 3 & 4ways that appear to have been designed with option for mirror imaging in mind - one of the first in such a slideshow
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well okay,
How would you guys orient them then?
If I stand them up straight, each tweeter and mid range is aligned vertically but on one side a mid is on the outside, and on the other side a tweeter is on the outside.
If I put them on their sides, I can align them vertically as well by flipping one speaker over, but then I'm dealing with one woofer closer to the middle of my listening position, and the other woofer way off on the outside.
I guess I'm wondering why someone wouldn't want mirrored speakers, especially in my circumstance. Mixing my own music.
How would you guys orient them then?
If I stand them up straight, each tweeter and mid range is aligned vertically but on one side a mid is on the outside, and on the other side a tweeter is on the outside.
If I put them on their sides, I can align them vertically as well by flipping one speaker over, but then I'm dealing with one woofer closer to the middle of my listening position, and the other woofer way off on the outside.
I guess I'm wondering why someone wouldn't want mirrored speakers, especially in my circumstance. Mixing my own music.
Not to contradict my previous post - even though originally built as mirrored pairs, there are also numerous JBL designs that never were, and these might sound just fine as they are.
Note that by the orientation of the labeling on the adjustment control panel, these were intended to lay horizontally, and while the symmetry of mirrored pairs is always nice when you can get it, I wonder exactly how much will be "missing" from the performance of your pair.
Frankly, I'd be more concerned with diffraction from the thick basket flange of the woofer and to a lesser degree the midrange unit. I've dome some minor refinishing projects on half a dozen pairs of JBLs of this vintage, and will be starting later today on a pair AR1s (yes with the Altec755s), and it never ceases to amaze me how little attention was paid in that era to diffraction effects from deeply recessed baffles and thick particleboard frames for grilles.
Note that by the orientation of the labeling on the adjustment control panel, these were intended to lay horizontally, and while the symmetry of mirrored pairs is always nice when you can get it, I wonder exactly how much will be "missing" from the performance of your pair.
Frankly, I'd be more concerned with diffraction from the thick basket flange of the woofer and to a lesser degree the midrange unit. I've dome some minor refinishing projects on half a dozen pairs of JBLs of this vintage, and will be starting later today on a pair AR1s (yes with the Altec755s), and it never ceases to amaze me how little attention was paid in that era to diffraction effects from deeply recessed baffles and thick particleboard frames for grilles.
Sure it would be nice to have the correct L/R pair.
Does the seller not have the correct opposite unit to swap over with you ?
Have you plugged them in and tried them to see if there is an audible issue ?
Does the seller not have the correct opposite unit to swap over with you ?
Have you plugged them in and tried them to see if there is an audible issue ?
As Chris pointed...you should define what "correct" is and from there (then ...) work to reach it. Accomplish it...that's hard !
The prominent basket could be one of those, and felt should cure that [issue]. If the issue is not "perceived", let's analyse the original question.
But first the speakers should be mounted in environment, so we ask: orizontally or vertically ? If there's a problem in swapping the drivers, the tw and the mid could be mounted on an ( aluminum ) steel plate, like the big Genelec models, or K&H, or my ol' Infinity ( they had the tweeter make-rotate ).
Following Chris suggestion, the (new!!)whole mid/tw structure could be bettered: the probably heavy cardboard tube for the mid could be hardened with a lead foil, and then covered with felt.
Going along the line, the reohstats could be removed as well as the crossover
and put elsewhere, away and out of the enclosure.
Going with the vertical alignement, the removal of those controls and the duct
is mandatory. The duct could be doubled and put at the sides of the tw or mid that sits above the woofer.
The game is yours, since this is DIY as opposed to those who would not want to touch a screw for the risk of making the object less valuable with the purpose of exchanging it for $$$ ...
The prominent basket could be one of those, and felt should cure that [issue]. If the issue is not "perceived", let's analyse the original question.
But first the speakers should be mounted in environment, so we ask: orizontally or vertically ? If there's a problem in swapping the drivers, the tw and the mid could be mounted on an ( aluminum ) steel plate, like the big Genelec models, or K&H, or my ol' Infinity ( they had the tweeter make-rotate ).
Following Chris suggestion, the (new!!)whole mid/tw structure could be bettered: the probably heavy cardboard tube for the mid could be hardened with a lead foil, and then covered with felt.
Going along the line, the reohstats could be removed as well as the crossover
and put elsewhere, away and out of the enclosure.
Going with the vertical alignement, the removal of those controls and the duct
is mandatory. The duct could be doubled and put at the sides of the tw or mid that sits above the woofer.
The game is yours, since this is DIY as opposed to those who would not want to touch a screw for the risk of making the object less valuable with the purpose of exchanging it for $$$ ...
I was not recommending anything resembling a rebuild. The points I was trying to make was that there are literally thousands of speaker designs not built as mirror imaged pairs, that would sound "perfectly fine" to most ears - and that I think diffraction of the tweeter's output at the woofers' thick frame could be more of an acoustic issue than non-mirror imaged arrangement.
It may or not be relatively simple to reverse the orientation of the vent / XO/ control panel, but having worked on a few pairs of JBLs of that era, I think you'd have your work cut out for you trying to make a tidy job of swapping the location of mid and tweeter.
It may or not be relatively simple to reverse the orientation of the vent / XO/ control panel, but having worked on a few pairs of JBLs of that era, I think you'd have your work cut out for you trying to make a tidy job of swapping the location of mid and tweeter.
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