You didn't miss much.
It wasn't completely intended as a joke. I used it to show that one doesn't rule out the other; that both our examples are illogical.
It wasn't completely intended as a joke. I used it to show that one doesn't rule out the other; that both our examples are illogical.
I wish to refute that, but as we both are from a cold climate - why fight, takes too much energy right now. Wait for summer😉
phn said:
This is news to me. Not a single chemistry or physics textbook I have read has mentioned anything about metallic bonding being altered by cryogenic treating. You've been a little mislead my friend. It's cheap to do, so I'm sure if there was any benefit to it, it would be used in more applications than mock-fi.
Superconductivity occurs when the temperature falls below a certain point, and disappears when the material is brought back above it's critical temperature.
Here's no fight. No way I'm going to pick a fight with a guy from the country that gave us hockey, Bobby Orr and a few great rivalries: Canada-USSR, Canada-Sweden. Always great games. (Best game in the first World Cup? Canada-Sweden.) Back when hockey was actually fun, that is. Before everybody started to copy the boring Swedish trap defence. Hrmph!
fdegrove said:
I know they're not there to correct for impedance mismatch. They're there to justify 1000% mark-up. They attentuate the same signal that is so desperately trying to preserve. Any other explanation represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the topic.
fdegrove said:
I agree that the impact of thermal treatment to harden certain metals is well understood and has a long history. It's not like this is some overlookded area of materials science. I've never heard of any observed change in conductivity from cryogenically treated cables. This is a fairly basic 3rd or 4th year university physics experiment. Misleading people into believing that it makes a cable sound better constitutes fraud, plain and simple.
fdegrove said:
I never disagreed that signals don't need to be shielded, or of high quality. But that fact is that a lot of people are gullible. A heck of a better improvement is going to be had by putting the money spent on mock-fi interconnects into speakers or amplifiers.
The use of silver in high end cables shows that the people who design them don't know what they're doing. While silver does have a conductivity that is 5.5% higher than that of copper, it has a magnetic permeability that is 165% higher, causing a significantly more pronounced skin effect.
Theres still good hockey to be seen in canada - especially during playoff season when: really hockey breaks out because nobody wants to spent time in the penalty box for fighting.
But now - nhl kaputt..
greetings from north to north
Hi,
It actually has been used for decades in an awful lot of applications.
If it would be an expensive treatment to do, would it then have more benefit or less?
For the record, it has been applied to many cables, including those for hi-fi use for decades as well.
Now that someone decided to use that as a marketing gimmick it has become controversial all of a sudden.
How many of you have had the opportunity to compare both treated and untreated wire?
No one?
Cheers, 😉
It actually has been used for decades in an awful lot of applications.
If it would be an expensive treatment to do, would it then have more benefit or less?
For the record, it has been applied to many cables, including those for hi-fi use for decades as well.
Now that someone decided to use that as a marketing gimmick it has become controversial all of a sudden.
How many of you have had the opportunity to compare both treated and untreated wire?
No one?
Cheers, 😉
Why should I? If there would be at least a theoretical justification to do so I might - but I have as yet to encounter one. And since the difference - not even in listening tests consistently reproducible by me - between a 20$ cable and a 200$ one is so minor as to be of no concern to me , why should I care?
It's one week later and discussion continue. What comes now ? Copper dust cabel ? Or mercury cabel ? Or silver amalgam ? Or what ? All civilizations was die by intelectual blables. Do you know, which cabel use muezzin on minaret ?😀
And I had foolishly thought the reasons were either environmentally or
just getting plain bored with ones society's existence, or being overrun by hordes of barbarians.
fdegrove said:
And I repeat, none of them electrical. It's been used in a few cases to harden metal for aerospace applications, and even then it's use and properties are as controversial as free energy. It doesn't have the long and proud history you claim it has.
What other high percision equipment is cryoed electrical cable used in? I've never seen it used in high output motors, or megawatt sized transformers, or spark plug wires, or electromagnets, or hard drive heads, or any other high precision application for the matter.
NOfdegrove said:
How many of you have had the opportunity to compare both treated and untreated wire?
fdegrove said:
I haven't heard them, but I have measured the resistance of a 300m long coil of high purity copper wire on micro-ohm sensitive equipment as it was cooled from room temperature down to liquid nitrogen temperature and back up again. There was no change outside the bounds of the equipment's uncertainty, which is needless to say, very small.
The mock-fi industry will ofcourse reject the test. They reject all tests. It's remarkably difficult to find a double blind test on most of the equipment. The mock-fi cirles loath scientific evidence more than Jahovah's Witnesses do.
Hi,
You haven't heard the effect but yet you're ready to judge and dismiss already.
I'm very impressed.
Cheers,😉
P.S. Guess cryoelectronics is news too, huh?
You haven't heard the effect but yet you're ready to judge and dismiss already.
I'm very impressed.
Cheers,😉
P.S. Guess cryoelectronics is news too, huh?
Nah, the Spartans died because they kept hitting their heads in the wall. The Athenians and the other sissy Greeks learned by studying how the Spartan hoplites fought. And when the Spartans lost the edge on the battlefield, they had nothing. They never evolved. They were too arrogant for that.
(And it was the Spartans that considered the Athenians and everybody else sissies. Not I.)
What should there be to hear? He did not talk about a "cable" but a coil of wire - it is hard to transmit with a single wire.
But I guess you got a little blinded by your attempt to dismiss any measurement out of hand, eh?
If we stop to base the construction of any type of equipment on measurements - conceded that the chosen parameters have to adress what is necessary to the performance be it audibility, stress performance, static performance etc. - than we really might give over reason, stop any attempt to participate in governance and get the church back into power - that is the effect of an irrational attitude that apparently looks for the end of reason.
Hi,
No?
Then what was it he has not heard as yet?
Right...Cryoed cables. That's what.
It's not because the electrical resistance doesn't seem to have changed according to measurements that it actually means cryo treatment does not change anything at all.
There's life outside R, L and C you know.
Everything we don't yet understand is "hoodoo", right?
Or maybe it's just someone else's religion............
Why do I get this sneaking feeling none of the naysayers here have even bothered to at least read a page or two about cryogenics here....
Cheers, 😉
No?
Then what was it he has not heard as yet?
Right...Cryoed cables. That's what.
It's not because the electrical resistance doesn't seem to have changed according to measurements that it actually means cryo treatment does not change anything at all.
There's life outside R, L and C you know.
Everything we don't yet understand is "hoodoo", right?
Or maybe it's just someone else's religion............
Why do I get this sneaking feeling none of the naysayers here have even bothered to at least read a page or two about cryogenics here....
Cheers, 😉
No, but it's explanation by pseudoscientific reasoning (example esp, ufo abductions, feng shui) or religion.
As to the latter - the sooner it will be dumped into the trash bin the better - and i mean all religion without eception.
fdegrove said:
There's no need to listen to them. They make absolutely no difference in the sound of a cable. None of the electrical properties of the cable are changed by exposure to cryogenic treatment, not a single one.
You haven't given an explanation as to what would cause such cables to sound different. You don't need to drive a Ferrari to know if *****in, or a Plymouth to know it's garbage, and there's no need to listen to a cryoed cable to know is bogus.
Here are some direct questions fdegrove. I highly doubt I'll get a direct answer, but here they are anyways:
- What properties of the cable does cryogenic treatment alter?
- If no quantifiable properties are altered, then which audible properties are altered?
- People often refer to 'tube sound' as being warm, but what, exactly, is 'cryo sound'?
Heard of it, nothing new about it, it's old news. You're a little late in discovering this field my friend. Here's the fundamental basic of the field: Electrical parts that are not cryogenicaly cooled are not cryoelectric.fdegrove said:
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