It's official: all cables sound the same!

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#81
Re: AIMING FOR GOLD....

fdegrove said:
[snip]Either way, Janneman is just trying hard to convince himself not to buy those 7k Siltech wires isn't he? :devilr:[snip]
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And succeeding, actually...

fdegrove said:
Hi, Fair enough...I'll be the first to admit that I can be fooled.
Even though, in all honesty, I can't recall ever having been fooled as far as testing audio gear goes...[snip]
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Yeah Frank. It's always the OTHER guy that gets fooled, right?😉

Jan Didden
 
#82
carlosfm said:
[snip]Coke is certainly a difficult thing to evaluate, as 99% is water.:clown:
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Carlos,

You know, you are quite right. The test showed that it is IMPOSSIBLE to identify the taste in a blind test.
Yet, with the labels, 3 out of 4 say the stuff out of the Classic Coke bottle "tastes" better!

In the spearker test from Harman, people preferred the nice big shiny speakers over the little dinky ones because they said "they sound better". Yet in a blind test the preference for the nice ones went down and for the dinky ones went up.

Are you starting to see it?

Jan Didden
 
#83
Variac said:
[snip]If the people that hear these differences would consider the fact that they COULD be fooled, then I would be MUCH more interested in their opinions, but until a person admits the possibility that they can't always be objective, I really can't take their opinions seriously.[snip]
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That's the bottom line indeed. If you are convinced you are always right because you KNOW what you are hearing, you most probably aren't. If you realise you probably are subconciously influenced, you probably do a bit better, and up goes your trustworthiness.

Jan Didden

[I am mostly wrong, so you can trust me..😀]
 
#84
Variac said:
If the people that hear these differences would consider the fact that they COULD be fooled, then I would be MUCH more interested in their opinions...
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Ok, I admit.😀

Variac said:
...but until a person admits the possibility that they can't always be objective, I really can't take their opinions seriously.
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Ok, I admit.😀

Where's the objectivity in audio?
You can say a device measures better, but if you say it sounds better it's you oppinion, your taste.
That's why I could give a 10 ponctuation to a cable and you could give a different value.
What's objective about audio?

My point is: better or worse there's a difference, and the title of this thread is very wrong.:bawling:
 
#85
janneman said:
Are you starting to see it?

Jan Didden
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Of course I am.😀

On a sighted test a Sony SCD-1 would win for most beople while playing CDs.
For me, that plastic nasty cheap but quite decent 500 Euros CDP could win hands down, blind or sighted, if it sounds better to me.

Jan, a little off-topic, but have you realized that what sells more is never the best?
People "eat" with the eyes, and if a certain Fiat is more good looking than a VW Golf, even if the price is the same people will buy Fiat.
Does it make it the best of the two?

If most people pick cable X will you trust?
Wouldn't you want to take a listen yourself?
Do you have faith in what others say?
Would you buy it blind, without listening?
That's the worse mistake people do.
 
#86
carlosfm said:
[snip]Where's the objectivity in audio?
You can say a device measures better, but if you say it sounds better it's you oppinion, your taste.
That's why I could give a 10 ponctuation to a cable and you could give a different value.
What's objective about audio?

My point is: better or worse there's a difference, and the title of this thread is very wrong.:bawling:
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Yes, objectivity, that's the big question. In a general sense, what you like and enjoy is good for you. Even if there is another solution for half the price you are not aware of, that's immaterial.

Your example of the cars in your later post is a good one.
But, if someone tries to sell you a 10.000 $ cable because "it really cleans up the high end", that is no longer (unless you are filthy rich) an impulse buy. You want to make SURE it does what he says. One way would be an objective, blind test. On the other hand, if you BELIEVE it cleans up the high end, that's OK for you, isn't it? I have no clear answer here, I admit.

So, if I tell you, Carlos, you MUST use brass screws to fix your NIGC because it will lower the internal IC magnetic field and clean up the high end, would you believe me? If yes, why? If not, why not?

And, Carlos, your last remark, that there IS a difference, how do you know? (Don't tell me "because I heard it", please!).

Jan Didden
 
#87
carlosfm said:
[snip]For me, that plastic nasty cheap but quite decent 500 Euros CDP could win hands down, blind or sighted, if it sounds better to me.[snip]
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Ahh, yes, true, but the fact that it IS "plastic nasty cheap" makes it quite unlikely that it sounds good alongside a brass-and chrome flagship. Whatever the "objective" sound. THAT's the point!

Jan Didden
 
#88
janneman said:
So, if I tell you, Carlos, you MUST use brass screws to fix your NIGC because it will lower the internal IC magnetic field and clean up the high end, would you believe me?
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I would just doubt.

janneman said:
If yes, why? If not, why not?
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No yes, no no.
That, for me, is starting to enter the "black magic" field.😀

janneman said:
And, Carlos, your last remark, that there IS a difference, how do you know? (Don't tell me "because I heard it", please!).
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What could I tell you, man?😎
Don't tell me you never heard a difference, better or worse, when you change a cable?
If you ask me, I'll tell you that speaker cables make more difference than interconnects.
If you have a low impedance source or preamp (as it should always be) you will find it very difficult to detect differences with interconnects.
But speaker cables's difference is clear as water, specially the type of construction and not the 99.99999999% OFC label on the jacket.
 
#89
carlosfm said:
[snip]No yes, no no.
That, for me, is starting to enter the "black magic" field.😀
[snip]
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Black magic, Balck Gate, Black Mamba (you remember that famous speaker cable), it's all rock and roll to me...

I got to stop talking to you Carlos, it gets too damn expensive!


[Carlos said: Thank you for your email. Your credit card has been charged $5.99 for the first ten words and $1.99 for each additional word in your message. ]:bawling:

Jan Didden
 
#93
Yes,

I like pics from people I admire. This is Paul G Allen, 2nd man in MicroSoft. Has only 1/3 the money of Bill (only 20.1 Billion $ US).

Eight years ago he decided to built a provate spaceship. Last week the ship made it's 3rd flight, and won a 10 million $ prize for reaching a certain altitude & duration in space, sub-orbital.
In 2 to 3 years he will offer tourist flights in space with Richard Branson of Virgin. ( http://www.virgingalactic.com/who.html and http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sso_rutan_archive.html ). You can sign up for it already. I hope I can afford it before getting to old.
This kind of people, with a vision, and then realizing it, I admire very much. Of course, it's all subjective😉

Jan Didden
 
#95
janneman said:
This kind of people, with a vision, and then realizing it, I admire very much. Of course, it's all subjective😉

Jan Didden
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I understand that you admire him, I respect that.
He may be a great man for his vision and his actions.

This is off-topic, don't take it personal, Jan, it's not for you, but I need to say this:
As a software professional that I am, reading the words Microsoft make me sick.
MS-Dos is a copy of PCM, Windows is a copy of Macintosh, SQL Server is a copy of Oracle.
Nothing original...
All these copys are very bad, unfortunately.
Even then, MS-Dos was much more stable than any Windows, and SQL Server is not to be taken for serious, it's for kids, not for big companies.
I use Windows 2000 because I have software I need that only runs on this platform.
But I've quit IE long ago.
I've never seen such an unsafe and unreliable piece of software in my life. Every month Microsoft has tens of security patches.
People will one day get really tired of Microsoft, as I am long ago.
What sells more is never the best.

Linux will rule.😎
 
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