Hi,
But what does it prove?
That there are indeed people I wouldn't bother taking to a fancy restaurant? That much I knew already....😀
Seriously, if you don't taste any difference between cola and pepsi then that's fine by me. If you don't observe any difference between cable x, y or z then that's fine too.
But if some of us do spot differences and want product y instead of x, why would that bother any of us??
Surely you guys all agree that all audio systems don't sound alike either even if they are composed of components that would measure the same and are auditioned in the same room too?
Why bother with the subtleties of audio if it all sounds the same anyway....
Cheers, 😉
But what does it prove?
That there are indeed people I wouldn't bother taking to a fancy restaurant? That much I knew already....😀
Seriously, if you don't taste any difference between cola and pepsi then that's fine by me. If you don't observe any difference between cable x, y or z then that's fine too.
But if some of us do spot differences and want product y instead of x, why would that bother any of us??
Surely you guys all agree that all audio systems don't sound alike either even if they are composed of components that would measure the same and are auditioned in the same room too?
Why bother with the subtleties of audio if it all sounds the same anyway....
Cheers, 😉
fdegrove said:
Spot on.
I just didn't like the title of this thread.
If I prefer cable (or whatever) X over Y, what do I care if other people don't have the same oppinion, or can't spot the difference?
Does it prove anything?
Edit: would the cable sound different if I paint it yellow?
A beautifull debate
I did read the article in the glossy, noticed the apaption of facts and made my own conclusions on the waste of effort put into the blind testing ignoring the real outcome.
This thread has brought a lot more other usefull insights:
But is someone going to wrap up and send a letter to the magazine so they can comment???
If they take themselves seriously they should respond in their own medium. Would be interesting.
And fact of life is that at least on most consumables more costs are involved with packaging and advertising then with the actual product. (in the bottled water business they segment in cost/return of packaging per unit, the content is almost free)
I did read the article in the glossy, noticed the apaption of facts and made my own conclusions on the waste of effort put into the blind testing ignoring the real outcome.
This thread has brought a lot more other usefull insights:
But is someone going to wrap up and send a letter to the magazine so they can comment???
If they take themselves seriously they should respond in their own medium. Would be interesting.
And fact of life is that at least on most consumables more costs are involved with packaging and advertising then with the actual product. (in the bottled water business they segment in cost/return of packaging per unit, the content is almost free)
Important facts need correcting ...
For the benefit of makind it is important that we correct some statements made in this thread.
Coke is in fact about 75% water ....the rest is sugar and other stuff.
Not all soda water tastes the same.....the stuff around here is awful.
There are over 200 shades of yellow .....ever tried agreeing on house paint with your wife??
Cheers
For the benefit of makind it is important that we correct some statements made in this thread.
Coke is in fact about 75% water ....the rest is sugar and other stuff.
Not all soda water tastes the same.....the stuff around here is awful.
There are over 200 shades of yellow .....ever tried agreeing on house paint with your wife??
Cheers
Re: A beautifull debate
Talking about prices is a different matter.
Take this example, on the cheap:
1. A cheap 150 Euros CD player
2. A 150 Euros interconnect
Question:
What product costs mode to develop, manufacture, stock, transport, what costed more to produce?
Look at it this way and you soon find out that the interconnect is an armed assault.
earsandeyes said:
Talking about prices is a different matter.
Take this example, on the cheap:
1. A cheap 150 Euros CD player
2. A 150 Euros interconnect
Question:
What product costs mode to develop, manufacture, stock, transport, what costed more to produce?
Look at it this way and you soon find out that the interconnect is an armed assault.
In this discussion I seem to be missing a point. Most transfers of signals in the studio are being made with regular pro cables - belden, canare etc.
So, if those are good enough for the distances used in the studio to transfer the information, my question is: What should it bring more to use any kind of cable in exotic configurations in the home environment? If my source - cd/lp player can retrieve all the information from the medium, then how can any exotic cable add to this information retrieval or transfer?
If I use similar/same cable what is used in the studio environment, how can I loose any information that wasn't already lost in the studio transfer?
Either my logic is at fault here or those who promote k$ cables.
So, if those are good enough for the distances used in the studio to transfer the information, my question is: What should it bring more to use any kind of cable in exotic configurations in the home environment? If my source - cd/lp player can retrieve all the information from the medium, then how can any exotic cable add to this information retrieval or transfer?
If I use similar/same cable what is used in the studio environment, how can I loose any information that wasn't already lost in the studio transfer?
Either my logic is at fault here or those who promote k$ cables.
Hi,
First of all, not all recording studios use cheap, crap cables....
Still, even if they did, why would you want to degrade the signal any further by adding more crap to it?
See, there's the fault in the logic....😎
Cheers, 😉
First of all, not all recording studios use cheap, crap cables....
Still, even if they did, why would you want to degrade the signal any further by adding more crap to it?
See, there's the fault in the logic....😎
Cheers, 😉
I have a brother in Sydney ???
What a relief to find someone else that thinks like me......gonna cancel them doctors appointments....and sleep tonight.
You are on my buddy list.
Thanks & Cheers
What a relief to find someone else that thinks like me......gonna cancel them doctors appointments....and sleep tonight.
You are on my buddy list.
Thanks & Cheers
Janneman, This is a great summation!
Instead of banning you I'd like to give you a medal!
Of course that would be an individual act-not a moderator act!
If the people that hear these differences would consider the fact that they COULD be fooled, then I would be MUCH more interested in their opinions, but until a person admits the possibility that they can't always be objective, I really can't take their opinions seriously.
Reminds me of people claiming that advertising has no influence over their purchasing decisions. Trust me- it does- on a subtle level if not on the consious one. Or by influencing those around you which helps shape your opinion.
AIMING FOR GOLD....
Hi,
Fair enough...I'll be the first to admit that I can be fooled.
Even though, in all honesty, I can't recall ever having been fooled as far as testing audio gear goes...
Still, no matter what these psycho-babbles claim, you can't just be fooled all the time or can you?
So I suggest that if you can repeatably and reliably observe what you think you're observing, something must be going on...
Either way, Janneman is just trying hard to convince himself not to buy those 7k Siltech wires isn't he?
Sure does...
Let it suffice to watch the wife coming home from shopping....
How many of us haven't noticed her proudly showing the latest brand X product we all saw advertised on the tele the other night?
Cheers,😉
Hi,
Fair enough...I'll be the first to admit that I can be fooled.
Even though, in all honesty, I can't recall ever having been fooled as far as testing audio gear goes...
Still, no matter what these psycho-babbles claim, you can't just be fooled all the time or can you?
So I suggest that if you can repeatably and reliably observe what you think you're observing, something must be going on...
Either way, Janneman is just trying hard to convince himself not to buy those 7k Siltech wires isn't he?
Sure does...
Let it suffice to watch the wife coming home from shopping....
How many of us haven't noticed her proudly showing the latest brand X product we all saw advertised on the tele the other night?
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
Are you able to name a studio or two? I'd be interested in their recordings...
JF
Hi,
Well, there are quite a few studios equipped with Van den Hul cabling.
There may be a list of studios on his website, I haven't checked this for you.
There's also David Manley (VTL, Manley etc.) who uses his own cables (and mics) for his in house recordings.
I assume some of the studios being set up with his professional recording equipment using these cables as well.
There must be plenty more around....Depending on what you'd call decent cabling anyway.....
I can't speak for the musical content of the Manley recordings but technically these are quite extraordinary in that you can actually hear such micro-information as the acoustic signature of the recording studio, etc.
His modified microphones are no slouches either...
Cheers,😉
Well, there are quite a few studios equipped with Van den Hul cabling.
There may be a list of studios on his website, I haven't checked this for you.
There's also David Manley (VTL, Manley etc.) who uses his own cables (and mics) for his in house recordings.
I assume some of the studios being set up with his professional recording equipment using these cables as well.
There must be plenty more around....Depending on what you'd call decent cabling anyway.....
I can't speak for the musical content of the Manley recordings but technically these are quite extraordinary in that you can actually hear such micro-information as the acoustic signature of the recording studio, etc.
His modified microphones are no slouches either...
Cheers,😉
Re: AIMING FOR GOLD....
Do they sell Ferragamo shoes in Belgium? I think I could have purchased a Mercedes 500S with the amount of money my wife has invested in Italian leather products during the past 30 years of marital bliss.
...and it gets worse...
fdegrove said:
Do they sell Ferragamo shoes in Belgium? I think I could have purchased a Mercedes 500S with the amount of money my wife has invested in Italian leather products during the past 30 years of marital bliss.
...and it gets worse...
Hi,
Sure do...just you don't tell my wife, will you?
I'm trying hard to save up for my next Bianchi bike.
Not quite Merc territory but not exactly cheap stuff either...
Boy, am I a sucker for this high-tech stuff or what?
Oh, Ferragamo has a mens line as well in case the misses needs a hint for Santa....😀
Cheers guys,😉
Sure do...just you don't tell my wife, will you?
I'm trying hard to save up for my next Bianchi bike.
Not quite Merc territory but not exactly cheap stuff either...
Boy, am I a sucker for this high-tech stuff or what?
Oh, Ferragamo has a mens line as well in case the misses needs a hint for Santa....😀
Cheers guys,😉
Well Frank, I guess I will have to take your opinions more seriously 😀
I have to make do with a vintage steel Ciocc
I have to make do with a vintage steel Ciocc
...
Nice to you that somebody knows his stuff and keeps "high end" cable manufaturers in bread.
It seems - as in politics - the more outreageous the claims (cable resonances, importance of tl effects at audio frequencies, microphonie of cab les, magnetic effects of the earth magnetic field on cables - yes, I have heard that too)) the more people are going to buy snake oil.
Good if you can afford it. Good not for you - exept if you like spending money on either no or only incremental effects, good for the snake oil sellers.
Nice to you that somebody knows his stuff and keeps "high end" cable manufaturers in bread.
It seems - as in politics - the more outreageous the claims (cable resonances, importance of tl effects at audio frequencies, microphonie of cab les, magnetic effects of the earth magnetic field on cables - yes, I have heard that too)) the more people are going to buy snake oil.
Good if you can afford it. Good not for you - exept if you like spending money on either no or only incremental effects, good for the snake oil sellers.
Maybe it's time to read again J. Dunlavy's correspondence:
http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/dunlavy6.htm
http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/dunlavy6.htm
Suspect logic
The point at issue here is not that exotic cables add to the sound nothing can add to the source. If we are saying that then all reason is lost!
What is being said is that the losses are reduced with exotic cables and that that difference can be discerned.
The point at issue here is not that exotic cables add to the sound nothing can add to the source. If we are saying that then all reason is lost!
What is being said is that the losses are reduced with exotic cables and that that difference can be discerned.
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