How similar are those to each other in reality?
On paper the frequency response looks pretty much identical but there are differences: Fs XT25TBG60-4 589Hz, SS2604/833000 440Hz;
Sensitivity XT 93.6dB 2.83V/1m, SS 92dB;
Qts, Qes and ms are all different as is the effective cone area XT25 8.2cm^2 and SS 5.4.
Lastly the XT is tested with a 500Hz 12dB high pass and the SS with a 2.5kHz hp but both claim 100W power rating.
So on paper the XT appears to be the better driver alround but does this bear out in real life?
(Try not to be too disheartened) - I thought it was well communicated, and similar to my own findings.
The Peerless is overrated IMO, because of its excellent objective measurements and it's low mass (which imparts greater subjective detail). The thing is - it's over-damped and low-level detail and depth are lacking when compared to other offerings.
Hmm, tweeters:
-well, as nice as the Fountek ribbon is: I'd probably discount it because it's not easy to integrate unless you have a smaller diameter midrange with an extended upper freq. response (..to help with polar-integration).
In this respect I'd be looking to tweeters with a somewhat extended lower freq. responses, while have that "something extra".
SB26STAC-C000-4 :: SB Acoustics
Discovery – Scan-Speak A/S
28-537SH - 28mm Fabric Dome - TB SPEAKER CO., LTD.
https://www.parts-express.com/usher-9950-20-1-1-8-textile-dome-tweeter--276-608
It depends on your application, but surprisingly my favorite of the group is the SB Acoustics because of its under-damped dome and compliant surround (..plus it's extended response off-axis at high freq.s).
-it's a *very* detailed driver with lot's of "air". It doesn't have the "quiet" detail of a good metal dome driver (which SB also makes), but low-level detail is better produced as a result.
A problem with the driver is its manufacturing consistency - consistency between driver samples is not particularly good.
For a large waveguide loaded tweeter I'd pick the Scan.
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I haven't heard anything a 25mm tweeter can do that a 30mm tweeter can't do better.
We all want something different or maybe hear something different.
I don't care for most tweeters. You pay extra to hear more "ting-ting-ting".
"No man, that's what it sounds like in real life".
Great you build that tinging machine and enjoy the **** out of it.
But a lot of the music/sounds I listen to are electronic anyway, so it doesn't matter too much the accurate reproduction part.
There is something missing in the transients in most if not all speakers.
I give most significance to CSD graphs, but I'm not sure.
Most tweeters have a lot of weirdness at the top. Manufactures try to get the off-axis better by bumping up on-axis response and I'm not a fan.
It just occurred to me: why am I always turning down the treble?
Why not just put in the tweeter that I want to listen to?
That's why we build speakers right? Mostly?
Also I don't care how good a driver sounds.
If it's not built to my liking I don't put it in a speaker I'm building.
Also building things is kind of a waste of time, unless you have a lot of time to spare
Just like everything in my life, it took me forever to realize that one.Here's the EQ I use for almost every speaker I've ever had.
Not sure what is going on there.
Wait what was this thread about?
I like a tweeter with 25-30mm dome and wide surround.
XT25 is great, but low end gets weird and that is most important in a tweeter when matched with 18cm woofer definitely.
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I guess it really does come down not only to personal taste but the way the tweeter blends into the sonic landscape. The best make you forget about the medium and focus you on the sound /music by design. You forget everything but are enveloped in sound. That is the revelation I re-live every single day but it took 3 years to get there. If that is not what you are experiencing you have failed. But that isn't discouraging it's just the reality of striving for personal perfection. Essentially with rare exemption you get what you pay for and often a lot less. The trick like a good chef is how you blend the various ingredients to be greater than the sum of their constituents.
Sb26stac, sb26stcn, sb19, rs28a or f Used them all in recent builds. The 26stac is a beast, in a good way, and can take a lot of abuse. I have mine crossed 3rd order electrical, series cross, at 1.8k. Accidentally sent the system way more juice than they were intended for (Crown 2k) tweeter actually moved to xmax! Checked and they were still good
Favorite tweeter of a great value:https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...peerless-da25bg08-06-1-aluminum-dome-tweeter/
2nd order series cross at 2k. Beautiful! Engaging, crisp, and detailed with no perceptible fatigue after many hours of use.
Favorite tweeter of a great value:https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...peerless-da25bg08-06-1-aluminum-dome-tweeter/
2nd order series cross at 2k. Beautiful! Engaging, crisp, and detailed with no perceptible fatigue after many hours of use.
Experience has taught me that it depends what you're doing. For e.g., where the XT25 / 8320 et al may do an excellent job in some applications, they will not necessarily do such a good job (or as good as an alternative) in another, such as one with a lower XO frequency where its HD levels are rapidly increasing, or where you want good off axis performance.
Dayton Audio RS28a-4 is usually worth considering. Excellent motor, good dome design, clean FR (if you can live with a bit of a dip in the top octave), impressive HD performance & can take quite a hammering.
For e.g., where the XT25 / 8320 et al may do an excellent job in some applications, they will not necessarily do such a good job (or as good as an alternative) in another, such as one with a lower XO frequency where its HD levels are rapidly increasing, or where you want good off axis performance. Dayton Audio RS28a-4 is usually worth considering. Excellent motor, good dome design, clean FR (if you can live with a bit of a dip in the top octave), impressive HD performance & can take quite a hammering.
There is taste and there is objective reality. That is what the FR curves show us. As I've never measured anything I have built and like, I guess I would be considered a subjectivist.
But I do look at factory provided curves and make educated decisions on what components to use and what crossover design decisions to make.
I bought some CSS ribbons about 8 years ago. I can't remember what they cost. They were cheap-ish. Lovely. I have just heard them for the first time in the last month. I'm a big ribbon fan now.
Zaph used the XT25 with the ScanSpeak 8530K00 to great success. Funny mix of a very expensive mid-woofer and a cheap-ish tweeter...
But I do look at factory provided curves and make educated decisions on what components to use and what crossover design decisions to make.
I bought some CSS ribbons about 8 years ago. I can't remember what they cost. They were cheap-ish. Lovely. I have just heard them for the first time in the last month. I'm a big ribbon fan now.
Zaph used the XT25 with the ScanSpeak 8530K00 to great success. Funny mix of a very expensive mid-woofer and a cheap-ish tweeter...
Funny may be but not unheard of.
Quested Audio used to use cheapish (under £50) Morel tweeters in conjunction with the £500 Volt VM752 mid dome and ATC partnered their mid with Vifa D27TGs.
Decent tweets both though nothing exceptional when it comes to linearity or THD but both had outstandingly clean CSDs.
There are measurements HERE for a number of tweeters - expensive and cheap. Done in the same conditions so it is valid for comparisons.
Morel CAT308 (CAT308, MDT30s, MDT32S, DMS30S and DMS32S - all are the same tweeter) measured much better in all fronts than most tweeters - even regarding distortion and especially linearity and off axis response. That is the tweeter in Quested Audio if i'm not mistaken, and it is obviously there for a reason.
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What do you mean by compression measurements?
Is power compression a problem for tweets?
Zaph still has a D27 and XT25 waterfalls (CSD) on line but the XT is not as clean as the D27 version he tested. Although I think he mentioned that all D27 versions measure practically identical.
Zvu I'm by no means saying that they are bad, far from it. They are both excellent tweets.
The main point implied is that tweeter performance has little to do with price and that both well regarded monitor makers picked tweets with the same outstanding feature and one that is not normally looked at by most people.
Is power compression a problem for tweets?
Zaph still has a D27 and XT25 waterfalls (CSD) on line but the XT is not as clean as the D27 version he tested. Although I think he mentioned that all D27 versions measure practically identical.
Zvu I'm by no means saying that they are bad, far from it. They are both excellent tweets.
The main point implied is that tweeter performance has little to do with price and that both well regarded monitor makers picked tweets with the same outstanding feature and one that is not normally looked at by most people.
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Charles,
Usually, yes. SpeakerMeasurements.com routinely measures compression of whole systems, and tweeters are often show signs.
Yeah, the XT25BG's are really clean sounding, so I'm not that surprised anyone would match them with extra nice mid-woofers. I think SpeakerDoctor's first Intimates do this.
Best,
E
Usually, yes.
SpeakerMeasurements.com routinely measures compression of whole systems, and tweeters are often show signs. Yeah, the XT25BG's are really clean sounding, so I'm not that surprised anyone would match them with extra nice mid-woofers. I think SpeakerDoctor's first Intimates do this.
Best,
E
Buff, the problem will be the Mor... name. Under the Dynaudio logo these would be world standard...
I've been listening to DMS30s (94mm radius so quite good for close ctc distance) for quite some time now. Did a little research while ago. It seems that DMS from Morel is the same as Dynaudio Esotec D260 (imo, tweeters are the best that Dynaudio has to offer).
Paired with Seas midwoofer in mine take on Proac reference tablette 8, and using it for nearfield listening. It is insanely good - not just considering that amount of money but in absolute terms.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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