Hi Guys
As you might already have guessed, "accurate" bass will seem weak to most people, especially given the modern music production fashion of overinflating the bass in most music. Worse are the nonmusical bass noises added to music and sound tracks for movies that have nothing to do with either the music or the action.
Most subs are not subs in fact, rather woofers in a separate box. This only aids to destroy proper stereo imaging.
My system is actively crossed over and the subs are also powered by small amps.No amp has ever clipped regardless of the music type.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
As you might already have guessed, "accurate" bass will seem weak to most people, especially given the modern music production fashion of overinflating the bass in most music. Worse are the nonmusical bass noises added to music and sound tracks for movies that have nothing to do with either the music or the action.
Most subs are not subs in fact, rather woofers in a separate box. This only aids to destroy proper stereo imaging.
My system is actively crossed over and the subs are also powered by small amps.No amp has ever clipped regardless of the music type.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
hehe.. Yes agreed
Often people tell me that my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II headphones sound "sh1te and FLAT" when compared to Dre BEATZ.. LOL. How do you even begin to respond to that 😉
HAHA. I thank the lord that I am not your neighbour 😛
Personally, I am more of a clean and "lifelike vocals" kind person. Too much Bass makes my teeth hurt (and it wakes up the toddlers - resulting in a
from the mrs) 😱Hi Guys
Once you get used to accurate sound it is much more pleasing than having various parts of the audio spectrum boosted too much. More types of music sound good through an accurate system.
Those beat head phones are a marketing gimmick. I was not surprised by JBLs testing that showed that most listeners - and the majority of young people tested - did not like the Beats. There is fashion and then there is silliness... but everyone experiences sound in a personal way.
For the most part, we are on a quest to recapture that excitement of the first time we heard music in an all-encompassing way. So, there is nothing wrong with bass and treble controls, or having a preference for pumped up bass or treble.
Some of the Dorian CDs I have have 16Hz notes from pipe organs. These are accurately reproduced by my subs which I described earlier... or in another thread.The subs are small inasmuch as they take up little floor space. It takes two for proper stereo.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Once you get used to accurate sound it is much more pleasing than having various parts of the audio spectrum boosted too much. More types of music sound good through an accurate system.
Those beat head phones are a marketing gimmick. I was not surprised by JBLs testing that showed that most listeners - and the majority of young people tested - did not like the Beats. There is fashion and then there is silliness... but everyone experiences sound in a personal way.
For the most part, we are on a quest to recapture that excitement of the first time we heard music in an all-encompassing way. So, there is nothing wrong with bass and treble controls, or having a preference for pumped up bass or treble.
Some of the Dorian CDs I have have 16Hz notes from pipe organs. These are accurately reproduced by my subs which I described earlier... or in another thread.The subs are small inasmuch as they take up little floor space. It takes two for proper stereo.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
It is my experience that people who have subwoofers generally drift up the bass volume over time to the point where the whole music becomes unbalanced. Its addictive.
Shoog
Shoog
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Shoog - would you consider the JLH Class A amplifier ? - there are split rail power supply versions without the output capacitor (although I don't fear the output cap myself since it avoids need for speaker protection devices). And you may see some similarities to certain tube amplifier topologies (which after all were likely in the mind of the creator, JLH).
Look here: The Class-A Amplifier Site
Happy building...
Look here: The Class-A Amplifier Site
Happy building...
Was thinking more along the lines of the Hiraga le Monstre - looks like a better design overall.
Shoog
Keven, I'll play devils advocate here and challenge a few of these thought. OK, THX 80 Hz cheap AVR second order is pretty high, but as they are crossed to a woofer or mid woofer that goes clear through the bass, then yes, it is a sub. By convention anything crossed below 100 is considered a sub. We might have picked 65, but it is what it is.
If the sub messes up imaging, you have something terribly wrong, like no crossover on it.
Most sub amps have this little knob on them, You know, the one that allows us to adjust the level. It even gets the useless special effects you mention to not be too obnoxious.
You are quite correct that most people want a little boost in the bass. A EQ'd flat sub sounds a little dull until you sit back and listen to a lot of music. Then you find it is just fine. In none of my rooms, can I point to the sub as a source of energy. I just hear the music. As all my subs are sealed, the roll off more gently than ported subs but that seems to blend with the room gain just right.
How do you know no amp has ever clipped? Do you have something like a rail comparator hooked up to a latch? I bet they clip more than you think.
Keep some business cars for a hearing aid distributor to hand out. They probably are half deaf already. I'll keep my Grado's, thanks.hehe.. Yes agreed
Often people tell me that my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II headphones sound "sh1te and FLAT" when compared to Dre BEATZ.. LOL. How do you even begin to respond to that 😉
+1
I found this when I went tri-amped active. The 2 way mains run down to 60Hz where the stereo subs take over.
In my experience, when you have a "balanced system" it sounds good whatever level you play at.
PS I measured / estimated the power when listening at normal levels. All 6 channels of amplification added together came to approximately 6W peak.
Hi Guys
Any system with only one sub is flawed and this is indisputable.
Bass is directional from the point of view of the observer. With no higher harmonics for directional cues, you can tell the direction that a low frequency sound is coming from quite easily. We depended on this ability for our survival.
If many people are turning up their "subs" over time it is because their system is way out of wack either by design or by circumstance of their living space. Having a crossover above 80Hz is plain wrong; there is way too much directional information for a single woofer to be saddled with. In most of these mini systems and home theatre systems, the sound becomes so artificial in its processing and playback that one cannot have a proper music experience even though movies and TV sound okay. For the most part, a system that is optimised for stereo music playback will also be the best for movie sound in the home.
Leave theatre systems in their intended environment.
Were it possible to add a second sub to those multi-speaker systems and not have the bass mixed into both, then some of the damage caused by that approach can be undone.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Any system with only one sub is flawed and this is indisputable.
Bass is directional from the point of view of the observer. With no higher harmonics for directional cues, you can tell the direction that a low frequency sound is coming from quite easily. We depended on this ability for our survival.
If many people are turning up their "subs" over time it is because their system is way out of wack either by design or by circumstance of their living space. Having a crossover above 80Hz is plain wrong; there is way too much directional information for a single woofer to be saddled with. In most of these mini systems and home theatre systems, the sound becomes so artificial in its processing and playback that one cannot have a proper music experience even though movies and TV sound okay. For the most part, a system that is optimised for stereo music playback will also be the best for movie sound in the home.
Leave theatre systems in their intended environment.
Were it possible to add a second sub to those multi-speaker systems and not have the bass mixed into both, then some of the damage caused by that approach can be undone.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
About subs and boosting.
I mentioned that I have a sub that demolishes my room at 15-30Hz, but it's not "boosted". Like what kids have in cars, all you hear is bass. I have "normal" speakers that most of you would use without additional subwoofer because they play low down to 25Hz or so. I really like low lows in music and movies, but my room kills low bass. you just can't hear it. At all. Zero. In other parts of house it's loud, but not in room. That's why I have that subwoofer, to equalize bass.
Plus, having 1.5kW system I can listen to it really loud and let off steam. That is what relaxes me. Some people do crosswords, some play instruments, I listen to loud powerfull music. It demolishes my room when I play it loud, which is 5% of the time.
Now when I think about it, it might be slightly boosted around 20 hz (louder than normal), but only slightly.
I mentioned that I have a sub that demolishes my room at 15-30Hz, but it's not "boosted". Like what kids have in cars, all you hear is bass. I have "normal" speakers that most of you would use without additional subwoofer because they play low down to 25Hz or so. I really like low lows in music and movies, but my room kills low bass. you just can't hear it. At all. Zero. In other parts of house it's loud, but not in room. That's why I have that subwoofer, to equalize bass.
Plus, having 1.5kW system I can listen to it really loud and let off steam. That is what relaxes me. Some people do crosswords, some play instruments, I listen to loud powerfull music. It demolishes my room when I play it loud, which is 5% of the time.
Now when I think about it, it might be slightly boosted around 20 hz (louder than normal), but only slightly.
Hi Guys
Ice Torch, your experience is not surprising. Think about how long the wave is at 20Hz.
It's just like Mr. Idjot with the booming car stereo. He pulls up anywhere near you and your vehicle acts like a resonant chamber and YOU experience the thumping and barometric damage to your ears while HE gets none of it except the attention he craves...
At low frequencies there is a transition to how we perceive the sound - as a 'sound' in our ears to as a 'vibration' in parts of our body at sub-audio. Military and other specious research determined the resonant frequency of body organs finding that major pysical damage could be inflicted to humans quite readily using sound. High power super-audio is used for crowd dispersal.
Hopefully, the system we assemble for our musical enjoyment is no whewre near "crowd dispersal" in its fidelity nor its loudness.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Ice Torch, your experience is not surprising. Think about how long the wave is at 20Hz.
It's just like Mr. Idjot with the booming car stereo. He pulls up anywhere near you and your vehicle acts like a resonant chamber and YOU experience the thumping and barometric damage to your ears while HE gets none of it except the attention he craves...
At low frequencies there is a transition to how we perceive the sound - as a 'sound' in our ears to as a 'vibration' in parts of our body at sub-audio. Military and other specious research determined the resonant frequency of body organs finding that major pysical damage could be inflicted to humans quite readily using sound. High power super-audio is used for crowd dispersal.
Hopefully, the system we assemble for our musical enjoyment is no whewre near "crowd dispersal" in its fidelity nor its loudness.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
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