I'm trying to decide whether it's worth the pain to upgrade the stereo in my car or not. I have an 05 Mini Cooper with the harman/kardon upgrade, and even though it's the higher end stereo, it's still disappointing to me at least. I would hate to imagine how bad the standard stereo is. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of a car stereo, idk, atleast compared to the stereos in my friend's cars it sounds better, but it still doesn't match anything I have at home, and I don't have anything high end, just a few boomboxes I built and a pair of pretty decent computer speakers. The hk in my car sounds worse. If I were to sell the parts currently in my car, I've figured I could get maybe $500 out of the amp and the speakers. If I were to spend $800 or so in the aftermarket and install everything myself, do you guys think I would get a good jump in some quality? Another problem is, although I love the car, there's a lot of road noise, which is making me doubt I'll get anything out of upgrading, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am. I don't care about a fancy headunit or anything, I'm perfectly happy with just an aux input, I just want a decent jump in sound quality, something on par with the worst sounding system in my house atleast. Do you guys think it'll be worth it?
Have you heard the same system, when new? Maybe the solution is simply repairing it to like new.
Road noise can be lessened with damping material but the good stuff gets expensive if you do the entire interior.
Road noise can be lessened with damping material but the good stuff gets expensive if you do the entire interior.
I've actually never heard the system when new, I bought the car used. I don't think there's much wear though because it sounds pretty good compared to the other systems I've heard in cars, just sounds terrible compared to the systems in my home. My dad has a new bmw with the h/k upgrade and I actually prefer the sound in my mini to his car. Both systems I feel sound unnatural and have peaky treble response and boosted midbass, and miss a lot of detail, the bmw more so.
If you don't hear any speaker rattling or popping noise at various volumes especially max, there likely isn't any damage. What you probably are hearing is the dynamic EQ built into the radio. In the 2000s, the car manufacturers started using a form of EQ presets in their radios to protect the speakers, allowing them to use cheaper speakers. All cars pretty much have some form of it now. As the total volume is turned up, the bass and parts of midrange volume automatically reduce to prevent speaker distortion and damage. There is no visual indicator to the driver. You could turn a stock stereo all the way up, and have the bass turned all the way up on some bar graph or knob setting, and the music will only sound very loud, lifeless and bland with no bass at all. The treble usually sounds bad anyway since there normally is no tweeter or no quality tweeter if there is one.
Before going all out on a big stereo, the speakers will probably sound better if you feed them more power from a power-pack amp. You would get more sound from a lower radio volume setting before reaching that point of having the bass and midrange cutoff.
Before going all out on a big stereo, the speakers will probably sound better if you feed them more power from a power-pack amp. You would get more sound from a lower radio volume setting before reaching that point of having the bass and midrange cutoff.
The interior of a vehicle is not conducive to good sound. Different materials absorb and reflect sound differently and, at worst, resonate.
All OEM components are built down to a price, even the "premium" ones. I've never been impressed by a stock system and tear them out immediately. In my experience an aftermarket head unit and amplifier make a big difference. If you're not happy with the performance of those then swap out the OEM speakers as well and have it setup on an RTA. It'll never be perfect because it's a car but you should be able to enjoy it. Most aftermarket head units these days have adequate sound processing capabilities if you don't buy bottom of the barrel goods.
When it comes to road noise you have 3 options. Apply sound deadener to the interior, drown it out, live with it. Sound deadener is expensive, labor intensive to install and adds weight, makes for a very nice listing environment though.
Edit: you might be able to get away with a sound processor that integrates with your factory system but I have no experience there.
All OEM components are built down to a price, even the "premium" ones. I've never been impressed by a stock system and tear them out immediately. In my experience an aftermarket head unit and amplifier make a big difference. If you're not happy with the performance of those then swap out the OEM speakers as well and have it setup on an RTA. It'll never be perfect because it's a car but you should be able to enjoy it. Most aftermarket head units these days have adequate sound processing capabilities if you don't buy bottom of the barrel goods.
When it comes to road noise you have 3 options. Apply sound deadener to the interior, drown it out, live with it. Sound deadener is expensive, labor intensive to install and adds weight, makes for a very nice listing environment though.
Edit: you might be able to get away with a sound processor that integrates with your factory system but I have no experience there.
OEM speakers are designed to work efficiently with the OEM power. In many cases, they can't perform much better with an amplifier and the additional power could cause them to fail.
The reduction in parts of the signal is called compression and is only employed as the OEM amp reaches clipping.
The Equalization used in OEM head units is used to make the OEM speakers produce a better frequency response and is generally vehicle specific. If it's built into the head unit, you may not be able to easily stop it from influencing new speakers. It may or may not work well with them. Using a decent quality home speaker and connecting it in place of the OEM speaker can tell you what you have to work with before you decide what you need to do.
The reduction in parts of the signal is called compression and is only employed as the OEM amp reaches clipping.
The Equalization used in OEM head units is used to make the OEM speakers produce a better frequency response and is generally vehicle specific. If it's built into the head unit, you may not be able to easily stop it from influencing new speakers. It may or may not work well with them. Using a decent quality home speaker and connecting it in place of the OEM speaker can tell you what you have to work with before you decide what you need to do.
Actually I don't think I've had this issue with the system in this car, I think it's the one thing they did a really good job with. The amp seems to have a good amount of power, it doesn't thin out like a modern portable speaker at higher volumes, it still maintains a full sound with bass. I'd say it would make a good system for jamming out with friends singing your heads off but not for critical listening. The system does have tweeters but I hate them, they sound harsh.
I'm perfectly happy with drowning the road noise out by turning it up, but do you think I will have no benefit upgrading the speaker drivers and amps if I don't do any sound deadening? I was thinking maybe I could atleast sound deaden the doors, will that itself make a significant improvement? I'm also thinking of adding in a minidsp if I do upgrade so I can get a more accurate sound.
I think I would prefer to keep the car looking stock, so I'll have to confirm on the equalization, but I think I remember reading that it's separate from the headunit. My main dilemma is though wondering whether upgrading my components will get me any better quality sound because my car's interior acoustics suck, or if I'll get a very minor improvement.
I think sound deadener is the first thing.
I'd follow the Dsy's procedure.
But for a more completed system i add another amp and subwoofer.
Sound deadening is optional. Its main purpose is to reduce road noise and eliminate resonance in the panels it's applied to. Reduced road noise is excellent for low to moderate volume listening.
I think of sound deadening like this: in a quiet room you can hear a pin drop, in a loud room the sound of the pin is imperceptible. The fine detail of your music gets lost in the road noise much the same.
Upgrading any component of your system will be an improvement but you have to consider two things: 1) the system is only as good as its weakest link (that's why it's called a system) and 2) is the return on investment.
If you do go the DSP route keep in mind that you've now added another component to the system and it will only be as good as it's setup to be. That's why I strongly suggest paying for someone to tune it with an RTA.
Perry brought up a good point about potentially overdriving the factory speakers. Head unit, amp, speakers is simply my preferred sequence of upgrades. The best sequence for your vehicle will depend on what your weakest links are.
Gioba's suggestion of a subwoofer caused me to realize I don't actually understand your complaint with the factory system. What specific areas do you find lacking?
Mainly clarity, I can't hear much detail in the music, the bass sounds boomy instead of tight and accurate, it sounds like someone took an equalizer and turned up the 100 hertz range to make it sound like the system actually has any quality bass. The tweeters in the system also hurt my ears, it's peaky and sounds harsh. If I were to imagine the system on a frequency response graph I feel like there would be a jagged up and down line for the treble. The midrange is recessed and sounds muffled, especially the lower midbass probably because of the boosted bass. Very v shaped, muddy sound signature in general though without any clarity. I generally love hearing string instruments through my systems at home but in my car it just doesn't sound nice, as if it blends the notes together or something. Basically, it just sounds like a terrible speaker in a room with awful acoustics. That being said though, I feel the same way about the sound quality of pretty much every factory car audio system I listen to, so maybe I need to lower my expectations.
The sound that you can get from head unit's power pack is the most worse.
And from HU aftermarket too.
Every separate stuff i think works better.
The OEM speakers too can works better with a separate amp.
The subwoofer aid front midbass and lift them from the very low feequency for to get a clean sound.
The front midbass with a good power can't make a clean reproduction of low frequencies because needs a dedicated box.
But if you find the way to get it, you must to increase more sound deadener.
It's the great problem in car stereo.
And from HU aftermarket too.
Every separate stuff i think works better.
The OEM speakers too can works better with a separate amp.
The subwoofer aid front midbass and lift them from the very low feequency for to get a clean sound.
The front midbass with a good power can't make a clean reproduction of low frequencies because needs a dedicated box.
But if you find the way to get it, you must to increase more sound deadener.
It's the great problem in car stereo.
Will using sound deadening in just the doors make a big difference? I think I'm willing to do it, but it's expensive, so will doing just the doors themselves make a difference?
If you mount a midwoofer in the door yes, sound deadener does necessary and will make a difference.
The drivers needs a good support (wood?) for to contain vibrations and get an hard fix.
And unfortunately it's expensive but this is sound quality.
Going disassemble car's panels you can to add some sound deadener in other critical zone, you can to consult a professional for to make a good work.
The drivers needs a good support (wood?) for to contain vibrations and get an hard fix.
And unfortunately it's expensive but this is sound quality.
Going disassemble car's panels you can to add some sound deadener in other critical zone, you can to consult a professional for to make a good work.
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Okay, is it generally easy enough that I can do it myself? Labor is quite expensive in the area I live in.
If you use a roller to ensure that the damping material is stuck well at all points, be aware that the edges of the roller can actually push out lines in the door skin if you push too hard.
It's difficult but you can try.
It depends on car's structures also, i suggest to do some research on web about tutorials or guy's experiences in these works.
Need time and patience.
It can make a massive difference with sound deadening material. First make sure no metal vibrates, then seal off holes so the speakers have more of a closed box to play in.
Different absorbtion materials is critical as well, both for road noise and for reflection from/to the speakers.
Knock on everything and check what resonates.
You will be surprised by the difference it can make.
Different absorbtion materials is critical as well, both for road noise and for reflection from/to the speakers.
Knock on everything and check what resonates.
You will be surprised by the difference it can make.