A friend picked up a pair of Altec clones at an estate sale, thinking they were something special. He has offered them to me for $300, and my initial reaction was enthusiastic as I long to experience the famed Altec sound in my 24'x18' shop, or maybe even in my 20'x24' living room. Further research has only served to muddy the waters and I am no longer sure they are worth playing around with. Any advice from the braintrust would be most appreciated.
The drivers are:
PRV Audio D280Ti-s CD in what appear to be an Altec H-811B Horns
Dayton PA310-8 in the boxes
Crossovers are Eminence PXB2:1K6
I can find any number of Altec designs that look like this for 15" drivers, but none for 12" drivers. Are there any? Could this be a real clone, or more likely a one-off attempt at a downsized 15" enclosure?
Are the PA310s good candidates for horn loading give these T/S parameters?
I haven't heard them, as they are 6 hours away from me in Rochester, NY, but can't imagine that off-the-shelf crossovers are going be ideal.
I am a reasonably competent craftsman, but the finer points of speaker design elude me. Do these seem like a reasonable starting point, or would I be better served to start from scratch?
Thanks!
The drivers are:
PRV Audio D280Ti-s CD in what appear to be an Altec H-811B Horns
Dayton PA310-8 in the boxes
Crossovers are Eminence PXB2:1K6
I can find any number of Altec designs that look like this for 15" drivers, but none for 12" drivers. Are there any? Could this be a real clone, or more likely a one-off attempt at a downsized 15" enclosure?
Are the PA310s good candidates for horn loading give these T/S parameters?
| Resonant Frequency (Fs) | 39Hz |
| DC Resistance (Re) | 5.5Ω |
| Voice Coil Inductance (Le) | 1.68mH |
| Mechanical Q (Qms) | 8.85 |
| Electromagnetic Q (Qes) | 0.3 |
| Total Q (Qts) | 0.29 |
| Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) | 3.24ft³ |
| Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) | 0.23mm/N |
| BL Product (BL) | 18T·m |
| Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) | 72.8g |
| Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) | 5mm |
| Surface Area of Cone (Sd) | 530.9cm² |
I haven't heard them, as they are 6 hours away from me in Rochester, NY, but can't imagine that off-the-shelf crossovers are going be ideal.
I am a reasonably competent craftsman, but the finer points of speaker design elude me. Do these seem like a reasonable starting point, or would I be better served to start from scratch?
Thanks!
Attachments
No matter what they are called, the sum of the parts is okay but I would think an offer of $200 is more in line for this odd couple. Sure, you could piece them out for more but what do you have in mind? These are an easily moved high sensitivity satellite for a woofer system.
Dave: Agreed. Crossover will certainly need work.
Cal: He paid $300, so that is the sale price. I don't know that I want to bother negotiating it down. Would rather pass altogether if they aren't worth messing with. Alas, my knowledge is insufficient to determine that.
I've honestly never heard properly dialed in Altecs, so my interest is based purely on reputation. Unfortunately opportunities are difficult to find. I've almost bought 604s on a few occasions, and have plans for Parham's 4pis, but chickened out for this reason. My intuition suggests that a big, efficient 12" or 15" mid with a well matched horn is going to sound special. Seems worth exploration, but I want to give said exploration the best chance for success by starting with a good design. Not sure if these franken-speakers are it.
Maybe just keep the horns and build around them? Are they special enough for that?
Cal: He paid $300, so that is the sale price. I don't know that I want to bother negotiating it down. Would rather pass altogether if they aren't worth messing with. Alas, my knowledge is insufficient to determine that.
I've honestly never heard properly dialed in Altecs, so my interest is based purely on reputation. Unfortunately opportunities are difficult to find. I've almost bought 604s on a few occasions, and have plans for Parham's 4pis, but chickened out for this reason. My intuition suggests that a big, efficient 12" or 15" mid with a well matched horn is going to sound special. Seems worth exploration, but I want to give said exploration the best chance for success by starting with a good design. Not sure if these franken-speakers are it.
Maybe just keep the horns and build around them? Are they special enough for that?
If it's an 816 scaled to a 12" it's a custom from 'somebody'; that said, a lot of official Altec speakers were made by authorized distributor's in-house engineering crew such as I had access to here in Hotlanta plus there were Altec authorized furniture manufacturers that did them too, so in theory it could be 'Altec', but without documentation have to assume someone like me either designed it and made by others or my DIY, so worth however much one values their time and whatever it cost in time/materials to make or willing to pay others for it.
Without cab design dims, can't comment on its performance beyond showing the 15" 515-8G in an 816 cab with its ~110-342 Hz horn reflex tuned to 62 Hz, so the response above ~342 Hz is strictly the driver's output, ergo the Dayton will in theory drop down ~4 dB, so in a scaled version seems an OK match-up.
Without cab design dims, can't comment on its performance beyond showing the 15" 515-8G in an 816 cab with its ~110-342 Hz horn reflex tuned to 62 Hz, so the response above ~342 Hz is strictly the driver's output, ergo the Dayton will in theory drop down ~4 dB, so in a scaled version seems an OK match-up.
I would be getting them based on potential, not reputation. I'd perhaps expect that they may sound bad as is, but with the right work they may be good.
What are the dimensions of the mouth and throat? Looks like an 816 maybe the board the woofer attaches to can be replaced with one for a 15 without too much trouble depending on how it was constructed. That said I don't think they are worth 300 esp. considering the distance.
816 cab drawing
511, 811 horns, 807/804, 808/802 CD dims
At a glance then; based on a 12" woofer, 811 horn, a 4/5th (0.8) scale (12"/15" Sd, 30" 816 width) looks close enough for me without actual cab dims and at 16 1/8"(.125") i.d. tall this revised 816 can barely squeeze a 16" frame Altec in it.
Note that all the older horn designs were designed for 15", so anyone with these older cabs (literally) have their work cut out for them to ensure no frame warpage or cracking as I've seen just from folks who believe they have calibrated wrists, but don't, as the later frames were a big cost reduction from the original steel and cast 'bucket' frames.
511, 811 horns, 807/804, 808/802 CD dims
At a glance then; based on a 12" woofer, 811 horn, a 4/5th (0.8) scale (12"/15" Sd, 30" 816 width) looks close enough for me without actual cab dims and at 16 1/8"(.125") i.d. tall this revised 816 can barely squeeze a 16" frame Altec in it.
Note that all the older horn designs were designed for 15", so anyone with these older cabs (literally) have their work cut out for them to ensure no frame warpage or cracking as I've seen just from folks who believe they have calibrated wrists, but don't, as the later frames were a big cost reduction from the original steel and cast 'bucket' frames.
Thanks, all, for your extremely helpful replies.
The speakers in question may be worth playing with, but not by me. I've decided that I'd be better off obtaining the right drivers and building an appropriate enclosure than trying to cobble something good out of these.
That said, I don't think they are 816-based cabinets. I had my friend check and the upper and lower faces of the horn are not parallel. The lower is sloped up to the throat, likely reducing the issues (as I understand them) with the 816.
The speakers in question may be worth playing with, but not by me. I've decided that I'd be better off obtaining the right drivers and building an appropriate enclosure than trying to cobble something good out of these.
That said, I don't think they are 816-based cabinets. I had my friend check and the upper and lower faces of the horn are not parallel. The lower is sloped up to the throat, likely reducing the issues (as I understand them) with the 816.
You're welcome!
Thanks! I couldn't make up my mind if it was sloped or not. Might even be a clone of one of mine (I braced the HF horn section differently) as I chopped up many an 825 and a few 828 cabs to make a cheap, superior sounding 816 for 'garage'/school/Fraternity bands from '70-'82.
Thanks! I couldn't make up my mind if it was sloped or not. Might even be a clone of one of mine (I braced the HF horn section differently) as I chopped up many an 825 and a few 828 cabs to make a cheap, superior sounding 816 for 'garage'/school/Fraternity bands from '70-'82.
For $300 I’d get them. I like the 811 horn and with the right crossover the PRV will sound very nice.
The unknown is the Dayton and the bass box, but as @Cal Weldon says, this could be a good topper for a real bass bin. That was likely its intended use. It’ not likely you’ll get the bass you want with this woofer setup, but lower mids thru the highs should be quite good.
The unknown is the Dayton and the bass box, but as @Cal Weldon says, this could be a good topper for a real bass bin. That was likely its intended use. It’ not likely you’ll get the bass you want with this woofer setup, but lower mids thru the highs should be quite good.
I agree with Pano-I would get them-. Can you buy or build the boxes (Altec Original or Clone) for $300?
Plus drivers $$$. These might sound pretty good. But if they don't...
I would set a budget-? $500 total
as is $300 speakers -Work with passive parts OR mini dsp or car receiver (something like this NLA- Pioneer has other models)
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/13/pioneer-fh-x731bt-car-receiver-for-home/
Mike Chua- D280Ti some ideas
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/21/prv-audio-d230ti-with-dayton-h07e/
I would have let the seller know, "I'm driving 6 hours one way, could you please give me a break on the price?"
Settle at ? $200 for the pair.
Plus drivers $$$. These might sound pretty good. But if they don't...
I would set a budget-? $500 total
as is $300 speakers -Work with passive parts OR mini dsp or car receiver (something like this NLA- Pioneer has other models)
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/13/pioneer-fh-x731bt-car-receiver-for-home/
Mike Chua- D280Ti some ideas
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/21/prv-audio-d230ti-with-dayton-h07e/
I would have let the seller know, "I'm driving 6 hours one way, could you please give me a break on the price?"
Settle at ? $200 for the pair.
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As is-
if the speakers sound terrible or bad put them in the shop.
If the speakers sound good or great put them in the living room.
-when they are being transported make sure they are protected. If in the back of an open pickup truck, don't have the horn and woofer being driven into the wind.
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Me too, but got to admit that the factory 3/4" MDF 828 variant sounds better overall that its 5/8" cheap plywood 825.
Them's fighting words.
Says the guy who owns the 5/8" plywood.
And the guy who turned down the 3/4" MDF as he already had the plywood ones.
The MDF are fine if you are leaving them in one spot. No can do if you take them outside from time to time.
Thanks for all of that, folks.
I didn't pass altogether but, since we're starting an addition to our house in Spring, I told my friend that I wouldn't be able to take them for quite a while and that he should feel free to sell them to someone else. If they are still around when I have space and bandwidth I'll be sure to report back.
I didn't pass altogether but, since we're starting an addition to our house in Spring, I told my friend that I wouldn't be able to take them for quite a while and that he should feel free to sell them to someone else. If they are still around when I have space and bandwidth I'll be sure to report back.