Is there more to Audio Measurements?

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So I repeat, why is it crock?

By those who use it as an example of how we can't hear a whole other song down -50dB from the foreground audio, it's a croc showing that they have no idea of the mechanisms behind auditory processing & instead go for such simplistic & wrong examples. The same use is made of the McGurk effect - "oh, look how sighted listening biases our hearing" - it's idiotically simplistic
 
That’s what i call good DDR.

dave

Yes, I understand & we are in agreement as is Joe,wavebourn, Max & I'm sure others. Unfortunately, the usual chasm is in evidence - the measurements guys have no interest in investigating anything we say & call it opinion rather than experience. But such is the nature of the beast (& the ad-homs will now begin about this list of people I just named)
 
By those who use it as an example of how we can't hear a whole other song down -50dB from the foreground audio, it's a croc showing that they have no idea of the mechanisms behind auditory processing & instead go for such simplistic & wrong examples.

So the actual test is fine, you just have a problem with people who point out that mixing a marching band at a level above say, the vinyl noise floor on sparse choral music is a pretty good test for how good ears really are?

The same use is made of the McGurk effect - "oh, look how sighted listening biases our hearing" - it's idiotically simplistic
Ah so you believe in peeking. Cool, I can ignore everything you write from now on and save myself time.
 
So the actual test is fine,
What test - what are you talking about?
you just have a problem with people who point out that mixing a marching band at a level above say, the vinyl noise floor on sparse choral music is a pretty good test for how good ears really are?
It's damn stupidity - what does it show?
Now that you have brought it up - this is above the vinyl noise floor so do we not hear the vinyl noise? Doh!!


Ah so you believe in peeking. Cool, I can ignore everything you write from now on and save myself time.
Which is a the exact example I gave - you use the McGurk effect in a general & simplistic way to talk about peeking during listening.
Off you go to tilt at other windmills where simplistic ideas might fool some people
 
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The ear-brain-function is a funny thing. The other day I was standing on an open deck, at a ferry that was sailing on open sea. I could still clearly hear a woman unpack her food from a thin plastic film about 15m away. A normal measurement would not be able to separate this specific sound from all the other noises. So I believe, when we hear anything, it has a lot to do with, what we want to hear - both conscious and unconscious. It then boils down to experience, training and hearing ability - which is very personal and not in any way something as repeatable like a measurement. Some of the best audio systemt I have heard - actually started out with what we can hear and mostly like - then designed the speakers from that point of view.
 
The ear-brain-function is a funny thing. The other day I was standing on an open deck, at a ferry that was sailing on open sea. I could still clearly hear a woman unpack her food from a thin plastic film about 15m away. A normal measurement would not be able to separate this specific sound from all the other noises. So I believe, when we hear anything, it has a lot to do with, what we want to hear - both conscious and unconscious. It then boils down to experience, training and hearing ability - which is very personal and not in any way something as repeatable like a measurement. Some of the best audio systemt I have heard - actually started out with what we can hear and mostly like - then designed the speakers from that point of view.

This is called auditory streaming where the mixture of waves hitting the eardrums & generating nerve impulses are analysed by our auditory processing function into what sounds belong to what auditory streams & doing this on an ongoing basis.
I'm not sure of any measurement process that can do this - even the best speech recognition systems fail in the presence of noise
 
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