Before anyone jumps on it, yes I know the Kef LS50 is a 2-Way design. I want to use that as my reference though as I really like the sound of it, especially the midrange and detail. I currently have a pair of Kef Q100 bookshelves that I enjoy but want something a bit more in both low-end response and overall clairty. This is why I was initially auditioning the LS50 as a bit of a reference to the next step up.
What I like about the Q100, and very likely the LS50's, is the amazing off axis response. They sound great everywhere in my room including the seat way off to the side. This is one area that I am not willing to downgrade performance in.
I do have a home theater built around Markaudio CHR-70 as ceiling and surround speakers. The are in sealed enclosures that are wall mounted. They sound good for there application not not really a good reference for what I want to achieve in a two-channel system.
I would be interested is any floorstanding enclosures and would like to avoid adding a subwoofer at this time. I experimented with a sub woofer in my room already and didn't like how it integrated. I also like the idea of a full range design for simplicity sake. I've built 2-ways with passive and active crossovers in the past and want something pure and simple. The also means no DSP or room correction. My amplifier is a Yamaha a-s501, which does 85Wx2, and is an "okay" amplifier.
So can I match or exceed a Kef LS50 with a single full range driver? If so which driver and design. Yes I realize that "better" is subjective, but I'd love to hear your opinions.
What I like about the Q100, and very likely the LS50's, is the amazing off axis response. They sound great everywhere in my room including the seat way off to the side. This is one area that I am not willing to downgrade performance in.
I do have a home theater built around Markaudio CHR-70 as ceiling and surround speakers. The are in sealed enclosures that are wall mounted. They sound good for there application not not really a good reference for what I want to achieve in a two-channel system.
I would be interested is any floorstanding enclosures and would like to avoid adding a subwoofer at this time. I experimented with a sub woofer in my room already and didn't like how it integrated. I also like the idea of a full range design for simplicity sake. I've built 2-ways with passive and active crossovers in the past and want something pure and simple. The also means no DSP or room correction. My amplifier is a Yamaha a-s501, which does 85Wx2, and is an "okay" amplifier.
So can I match or exceed a Kef LS50 with a single full range driver? If so which driver and design. Yes I realize that "better" is subjective, but I'd love to hear your opinions.
There is an existing thread discussing this very topic. Don't think there was a consensus on a particular driver and design.
Maybe someone can find it for you.
jeff
Maybe someone can find it for you.
jeff
Adding a subwoofer is very often problematic and full of compromises.
Adding two subwoofers is much easier, playing with placement and phase on the second one. It starts to mesh a lot better.
Multiples are the way to go with subs.
Adding two subwoofers is much easier, playing with placement and phase on the second one. It starts to mesh a lot better.
Multiples are the way to go with subs.
Yes I realize the benefits of multiple subwoofers. I have 4 identical time aligned and EQed subs in my acoustically treated theater room. That room is zero compromise, any goes for for the sake of better sound.
This 2-channel system is for our main living area and unfortunately is limited by the usual room and WAF factors. I am fortunate though the my options for speaker placement are quite favorable with only one room node causing a bit of a peak at 47hz, something I can live with thus the reason for wanting to avoid the subwoofer if possible.
I have previously used a subwoofer in this system. Integrated and EQed with a miniDSP. I was never happy with results for some reason. The bass always seemed a bit sloppy and the disconnected.
This 2-channel system is for our main living area and unfortunately is limited by the usual room and WAF factors. I am fortunate though the my options for speaker placement are quite favorable with only one room node causing a bit of a peak at 47hz, something I can live with thus the reason for wanting to avoid the subwoofer if possible.
I have previously used a subwoofer in this system. Integrated and EQed with a miniDSP. I was never happy with results for some reason. The bass always seemed a bit sloppy and the disconnected.
I read through the other LS50 threads. In the 20 or so pages there were maybe 5 posts that had had any useful information. Based on all the post it would appear that the only think that matters is how flat a speaker measures, anything commercial is overpriced junk, and conjecture trumps real world experience.
I think I might pick up a used pair of the LS50 as they go for about $750-800 CAD to try them out. At that price it would be tough to DIY something once materials, time, and stress are factored in. I might harvest the drivers from my Q100's and attempt a DIY 3-way floorstander.
I think I might pick up a used pair of the LS50 as they go for about $750-800 CAD to try them out. At that price it would be tough to DIY something once materials, time, and stress are factored in. I might harvest the drivers from my Q100's and attempt a DIY 3-way floorstander.
If no sub, then my go to design is a MLTL.
A TABAQ with a 4" driver has good strong believable bass down to 45Hz, when it starts fading away fast.
They look good, take very little floor space, and are easy to place around a room.
The Tang Band W4-1052SD with a little notch is quite a smooth performer that turned some heads around here.
A bit more spl using a Faital 4" driver if needed.
A TABAQ with a 4" driver has good strong believable bass down to 45Hz, when it starts fading away fast.
They look good, take very little floor space, and are easy to place around a room.
The Tang Band W4-1052SD with a little notch is quite a smooth performer that turned some heads around here.
A bit more spl using a Faital 4" driver if needed.
It depends on how low you want it off course, but many fullrange drivers that are a bit bigger can give you decent bass, certainly on low volume. I do it with an Mark Audio 10.3M in a ported bookshelf (to 45Hz), but there are others also. The driver must have a low enough FS and a decent xmax to be able to do that. And TL type of alignments often maximise the bass you can get from a fullrange driver.
And about the LS50, they are dual concentric speaker, not fullrange drivers, and the bass that they give is also not that much i think. But they do sound decent good in a small package and are very popular for that. If you want to have something like that, you need to find a good dual concentric driver (but they are rare in that small size).
And about the LS50, they are dual concentric speaker, not fullrange drivers, and the bass that they give is also not that much i think. But they do sound decent good in a small package and are very popular for that. If you want to have something like that, you need to find a good dual concentric driver (but they are rare in that small size).
LS50 as a coaxial speaker has wider dispersion than any fullrange speaker so if you like side seats to sound the same as sweet spot you have to use small treble source and a waveguide could smooth out the off axis response even more. Coaxial speaker have them both. Most fun project I can imagine is reuse the Q100 you have and make it a three way. Have fun!
Hi,
The KEF LS 50 is a quite nice little speaker, especially for the price. Mass production in China allows a price/quality ratio which is hard to beat. I use it as a reality check when evaluating small bookshelf fullrange speakers.
I tend to prefer a good fullrange speaker, but of course I´m selling same and am biased. However, out of the sweet spot (which is not that small with a small fullrange, even at short distances) preferences might change, and for larger audiences a speaker with a more uniform dispersion than a FR can provide could be better. A fullrange-based speaker, especially a small one, is something for a small audience, small rooms, low to middle volume and small listening distances.
Ah, and the LS 50 can play louder than any 5" FR I´m aware of, but if you plan to listen loud, there might be other alternatives.
All the best
Mattes
The KEF LS 50 is a quite nice little speaker, especially for the price. Mass production in China allows a price/quality ratio which is hard to beat. I use it as a reality check when evaluating small bookshelf fullrange speakers.
I tend to prefer a good fullrange speaker, but of course I´m selling same and am biased. However, out of the sweet spot (which is not that small with a small fullrange, even at short distances) preferences might change, and for larger audiences a speaker with a more uniform dispersion than a FR can provide could be better. A fullrange-based speaker, especially a small one, is something for a small audience, small rooms, low to middle volume and small listening distances.
Ah, and the LS 50 can play louder than any 5" FR I´m aware of, but if you plan to listen loud, there might be other alternatives.
All the best
Mattes
The Tangband W5-2143 is very nice and in a MLTL of plain reflex box can be excellent. It has deep bass capability for a fullrange.
I’ve gone back to using a tweeter to fill out the tops with my W5s. I use a Dayton AMT which sounds pretty sweet. Otherwise it’s a great full ranger.
Lots to think about. I may just pick up some LS50s for now as a baseline. If I end up not liking or using them I should be able to resell them easily.
I will also grab a pair of the MA Alpair's, still undecided on the driver size but am leaning towards the 7cm one with a 6.5" woofer to assist. Is that what "enabled" is? I see the term thrown around alot here but don't know what it stands for.
I will also grab a pair of the MA Alpair's, still undecided on the driver size but am leaning towards the 7cm one with a 6.5" woofer to assist. Is that what "enabled" is? I see the term thrown around alot here but don't know what it stands for.
“Is that what ‘enabled’ is?” - careful what you ask for.
This is me dodging that bullet, but addressing what I sense to be a separate question.
Yeah, I think that for a couple of hundred dollars and some woodbashing, you could come up with something quite enjoyable, and the Mark Audio drivers have long been favorites of mine as well. If contemplating adding bass support, then the smaller class size (50mm) might be worth consideration, and there are quite a few new models from which to chose. Bang for the buck, the Silver Flute and budget series Peerless mid-bass in the 6” class are very attractive.
FWIW I’ve only had one rather limited audition of the LS50 a couple of years ago I think, and was probably underwhelmed by anticipation bias - i.e. they didn’t immediately blow me away, but given protracted listening, I’m sure they’d be perfectly acceptable. Could any of the designs already - or yet to be - proposed herein surpass them in measurements or repeated listener preference tests is the type of question this hobby/addiction sets out to explore.
This is me dodging that bullet, but addressing what I sense to be a separate question.
Yeah, I think that for a couple of hundred dollars and some woodbashing, you could come up with something quite enjoyable, and the Mark Audio drivers have long been favorites of mine as well. If contemplating adding bass support, then the smaller class size (50mm) might be worth consideration, and there are quite a few new models from which to chose. Bang for the buck, the Silver Flute and budget series Peerless mid-bass in the 6” class are very attractive.
FWIW I’ve only had one rather limited audition of the LS50 a couple of years ago I think, and was probably underwhelmed by anticipation bias - i.e. they didn’t immediately blow me away, but given protracted listening, I’m sure they’d be perfectly acceptable. Could any of the designs already - or yet to be - proposed herein surpass them in measurements or repeated listener preference tests is the type of question this hobby/addiction sets out to explore.
Well ducked Chris. When it comes to what people expect a speaker to do, I mean, what do they expect them to do? 🙂
