The low size cabinet winns for my needs, so a SB34RNX-L version with DSP if can not been made passive easily, seems the good option to have some Sd.
I was also lurking towards smaller bass drivers but really want more SD than what I have now (2 x 6.5" sealed per channel). The Dayton 15" ref in 4 ohms seemed good also in 85 L sealed but among the temptation of big Sd for big boy big toy, it is staying too much for the living room.
I lurk also the Faital 12RS450 but Vas seems too big for me : > 80 L box.
SS drivers are too much expensive and the Discover 26W models not so good sealed (55 hz F3).
Another option related to the price was the Seas L26Roy, that models fine in 40 to 50L but efficienty is a pity. It is not that I listen loud, but want a little life, so some sefficienty.
Peereless stopped the XLS but surely it is blured by the SB34nrx and nrx-l.
I was also lurking towards smaller bass drivers but really want more SD than what I have now (2 x 6.5" sealed per channel). The Dayton 15" ref in 4 ohms seemed good also in 85 L sealed but among the temptation of big Sd for big boy big toy, it is staying too much for the living room.
I lurk also the Faital 12RS450 but Vas seems too big for me : > 80 L box.
SS drivers are too much expensive and the Discover 26W models not so good sealed (55 hz F3).
Another option related to the price was the Seas L26Roy, that models fine in 40 to 50L but efficienty is a pity. It is not that I listen loud, but want a little life, so some sefficienty.
Peereless stopped the XLS but surely it is blured by the SB34nrx and nrx-l.
If the woofer is sensitive to that, you can just buy a big magnet and put it there - Y35 ferrite is very cheap.
It might lower the Qtc/Qts significantly, and the better saturation potentially also increases the stiffness of magnetic circuit a little bit (Bl(i)), and lowers Le slightly.
Here an example, Scan Speak 26W/8534G00:
For two of them in ~70l CB, Qtc got from 0,84 to 0,72 with that measure. Costs were about 7.- € per driver for the added magnet, and a bit epoxy glue....
Thanks,
Yup I remember what you said on your thread and I am curious about sims, cause I quickly simed with MH AUdio site taking Dibirama T&S numbers. and F3 was so-so at 55 hz, which is what I get with the 12PR320.
Will try later the "mit" option.
Not easy if bass lift is involded with DSP or else to make a choice though (distorsion profile choice, where you put the trigger?). The VAS of the 22W seems more friendly but I do not know if he goes low.
Must say the sealed 50 L option of the DSPed SB34NXRL is attractive because the size.
Yup I remember what you said on your thread and I am curious about sims, cause I quickly simed with MH AUdio site taking Dibirama T&S numbers. and F3 was so-so at 55 hz, which is what I get with the 12PR320.
Will try later the "mit" option.
Not easy if bass lift is involded with DSP or else to make a choice though (distorsion profile choice, where you put the trigger?). The VAS of the 22W seems more friendly but I do not know if he goes low.
Must say the sealed 50 L option of the DSPed SB34NXRL is attractive because the size.
If you have any idea (all of you fellows) of <60 L (sealed preference but not "closed" to a SC4 vented for instance) F3 <=40 hz on a budget , do not hesitate to drop me a post, please 🙂. Anyway I follow your thread as well. Rigth now the SB34 rnx-l on TLHP is an option, though a little expensive for what I can acheive in quality (not experienced enough) . In the meantime it is not like if I builded two loudspeakers a year. (this project almost started 2 y ago and was delted due to life)
Sb acustics use the 34nrxl in a 3way called the gema, open design,xover 680hz 3rd order slope with notch filter,see there website.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/gema/ .
The SB26STAC is a nice tweeter, tried it already, after advices here, for a friend's loudspeaker refurbishing.
The SB26STAC is a nice tweeter, tried it already, after advices here, for a friend's loudspeaker refurbishing.
Yes, the M26s are a rare bird. Crazy thing is they have a straight profile cone with large surround and yet quite flat FR past 2k. I measured under 0.7% HD upwards of 40 hz at 94 dB in a smaller sealed box. I put a pair of them in my truck behind the seats in 25 ltrs sealed for each, driven with a 100W Sony amp per side. The bass is by far the best I've heard in a mobile system of any price. I wish the bass in my studio setup was half as good. You can hear the tiniest details and flaws in a recording.
Might have you beat in the procrastination department as for 20 years now I have 8 x M26s and 6 x ACI SV12s sitting new in boxes waiting for a project. I may sell them depending on what they're worth.
Lol... it is staying open to measurements.
I find the cut off low pass to high and overcomplicated.
I find the cut off low pass to high and overcomplicated.
It be like that sometimes! IDK how many things I have that I need to get to some time...
Quite the opposite, it is as simple as it gets.
Symetric LR2 with this straight baffle and SB12 - SB34 crossover is not possible, I assume phase tracking was not good.
Tilted baffle, ~5deg, would be benefical here, enabling LR2 also for MT.
The LP cutoff on the woofer is way too high. Phase tracking will be poor and I wouldn't like to see the transient response either. Anyone who attempts to build this kit and successfully integrates it into their listening space without it sounding like a plastic bucket in the lower mids should be crowned the smartest fool.
Just changing the height of the woofer on standa will screw up the midbass so much, it would require a complete remake of the xover. I learned a long time ago that 2 or more LF drivers per side greatly smooth out the lower mids and require less (if any) BSC if the xover points are chosen correctly.
When I see the step response on HifiCompass, I am frightened about its kicking bass behavior (too much H ?) ?!
But I trust you guys, and SS bass drivers costs way too much but the Discovery Line ! I am going to benchmark it against a 12PR320 but with total different magnitude. So not an apple to apple comparison. I do not see cheaper 12" for my simple hif living room choice (but the non L iteration). 12rs430 could be ok for hifi but needs bigger cabinets and I do not know about its disto and bass boost proof (it has good Xmax though).
There are not cheaper alternatives for my monney but some PA drivers (two 10rs430 in 77 L but it is way much than 50 L in a living room). Wavecore and Scan Speak as Vifa good bass drivers are expensive related to the Sd
I like more and more the idea of a LF boost to avoid too much big cabinet w/o sacrificing too much on S/Q (music only here, few OST only) so 40 hz F3 is okay ! (I dunno about my room gain, too much complicated for me : my everyday loudspeaker is sealed twins 6.5" band pass at 35 hz f3 in 40 squaremeters, btw : sorry for the feets and futons surface numbers)
But I trust you guys, and SS bass drivers costs way too much but the Discovery Line ! I am going to benchmark it against a 12PR320 but with total different magnitude. So not an apple to apple comparison. I do not see cheaper 12" for my simple hif living room choice (but the non L iteration). 12rs430 could be ok for hifi but needs bigger cabinets and I do not know about its disto and bass boost proof (it has good Xmax though).
There are not cheaper alternatives for my monney but some PA drivers (two 10rs430 in 77 L but it is way much than 50 L in a living room). Wavecore and Scan Speak as Vifa good bass drivers are expensive related to the Sd
I like more and more the idea of a LF boost to avoid too much big cabinet w/o sacrificing too much on S/Q (music only here, few OST only) so 40 hz F3 is okay ! (I dunno about my room gain, too much complicated for me : my everyday loudspeaker is sealed twins 6.5" band pass at 35 hz f3 in 40 squaremeters, btw : sorry for the feets and futons surface numbers)
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As long as you don't attempt to take shortcuts in order to try accomplishing design goals which defy common laws of physics, you'll be fine with the SB34NRX in a smaller aperiodic dampened box. The benefit of this is not needing more power just to overcome the decreased compliance of a smaller sealed box. Excursion limits may become an issue if you get t greedy with the EQ, but GD and phase tracking will be more predictable, allowing for smoother FR after EQ.
Or just throw in the towel and gift them to me to use with my "Still on the shelf after ten years" P-13s
@jaakkopetteri That depends on your planned upper cutoff and required sensitivity to mate with another driver, unless of course its separately powered from everything. Usually, larger drivers designed to be in smaller boxes sound congested and sluggish with high Mms and Le. The NRX(L) versions are designed for larger boxes with higher cutoffs, so they'll sound much better in a real 3 way. Dedicated subwoofer drivers usually sound bad crossed above 100 hz for the reasons stated above. You'll have to model the F3 compromises you'll be making using a wide banded driver in a very small box. I personally would avoid it for several reasons, so the dedicated sub will work best in a small box with generous EQ applied.
So reading from the above comments clearly sb acustics have no idea in designing the gema as the 3way.so should we discard that design completly.
hehe. They are actually in daily use, but the cabs they are in a rather shocking 😉