Is single ended worth it?

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#142
M Gregg said:
I have a question,

If we take the line that all amps sound the same in blind testing then I am going to ask:

  1. There is no difference between a Krell top end amp and a pioneer A300x only price?
  2. You cannot tell one topology from another in either SS or tube design?
  3. The PSU in these amps makes no audible difference?
  4. The component types make no audible difference that includes output transformers?
  5. All the above are true as long as the same speakers are used?
  6. The damping factor is not audible?
  7. one more..if you can hear a difference there is something wrong with the amp?
So there is no gain over midfi systems its all a myth?
Because there either is an audible difference or there isn't?

Lets add a bone of contention..DIY audio amplifiers might sound different because they are flawed..ie we cannot make an amp better than a commercial supplier? (because any amplifier that sounds different is adding to the signal)

Regards
M. Gregg
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I guess we just have to repeat it until hell freezes over:
No one is claiming ALL amps sound the same!

But amps designed to have no audible artefacts all sound the same. It is not difficult to do that, and it doesn't cost much.



How to do blind testing with amps at home:
- Try to be as honest as possible.
- Select a recording witch you think can the show differences you hear.
- Record the amps output, connected to the speakers, with a high quality ad converter. You need a 20dB voltage divider, easy to diy. A high quality ad converter is cheap these day's, you don't have to spend a fortune.
- Now you can test the recording against the ripped version.
- Edit the recording so that it has exactly the same start and endpoints of the ripped version. This needs to be sample accurate.
- Make sure the 2 recordings are level matched within 0.1dB RMS.
- Install an ABX or ABC/HR program. All the software you need is freely available.
- Choose the number of trials beforehand and perform the test, take as long as you think you need. Take breaks from listening.
- Accept the results. This is often the most difficult part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt7GyFW4hOI
 
#143
Tattoo said:
I guess we just have to repeat it until hell freezes over:
No one is claiming ALL amps sound the same!

But amps designed to have no audible artefacts all sound the same.
Click to expand...


Heeey yes,

I can go along with that..amps designed to sound the same..all sound the same..😀

Merry Xmas..:deer:

Just joking..🙄

At the end of the day if many amps are distorted then they don't sound the same
..so conclusion is buy or build the distortion you like the best..
Its a bit like "My Maserati does 185...but the speed limit makes it pointless"

Ie its adding or removing from the signal.

Regards
M. Gregg
 
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#144
M Gregg said:
Heeey yes,

I can go along with that..amps designed to sound the same..all sound the same..😀

Merry Xmas..:deer:

Just joking..🙄

At the end of the day if many amps are distorted then they don't sound the same
..so conclusion is buy or build the distortion you like the best..
Its a bit like "My Maserati does 185...but the speed limit makes it pointless"

Ie its adding or removing from the signal.

Regards
M. Gregg
Click to expand...

The joke is on those who spend to much money...
 
#147
M Gregg said:
Its an interesting statement..how much is to much?
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That can be determined by proper subjective testing. ABX and ABC/HR being some that people can do at home.

M Gregg said:
DIY for esoteric or DIY for fun? Both would seem to be possible...
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All very viable.
Just don't start claiming 0.00001% harmonic distortion sounds better than 0.0001% without presenting actual proof.

M Gregg said:
I guess you could say why build expensive tube amps when you can do the same or better with SS?
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When designing for musical artefacts, tubes are much easier.
When designing for non audible artefacts, ss is a lot cheaper.
 
#154
Oh , I finally got it . All modern SS amps sound equally bad, flat , dead and mostly only suitable for elevator music (which sometimes is not a bad thing ) I actually semi consciously deducted that some years ago without the help of any double blind tests and never spent on SS amp more than $500 and preferably $300 (when I needed something for background noise) That small artificial difference between the brands never seemed to be worth to bother. It is so probably ,because SS designers are not able to escape their spectral analyzers and THD meters and consequently are producing similarly sounding %^&** 🙂 I think, I own you an apology guys . I'm so into tubes for last many years and specifically SET's that I unconsciously translated my experience somehow not realizing that you have Solid State boomboxes in mind 🙂
Happy Listening !
 
#156
Evenharmonics said:
Or re-read this thread from the beginning because it's all been answered already. 😉
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I was just giving my opinion when someone asked for it.

limono said:
Oh , I finally got it . All modern SS amps sound equally bad, flat , dead and mostly only suitable for elevator music (which sometimes is not a bad thing ) I actually semi consciously deducted that some years ago without the help of any double blind tests and never spent on SS amp more than $500 and preferably $300 (when I needed something for background noise) That small artificial difference between the brands never seemed to be worth to bother. It is so probably ,because SS designers are not able to escape their spectral analyzers and THD meters and consequently are producing similarly sounding %^&** 🙂 I think, I own you an apology guys . I'm so into tubes for last many years and specifically SET's that I unconsciously translated my experience somehow not realizing that you have Solid State boomboxes in mind 🙂
Happy Listening !
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Its hard to argue with this kind of logic...
popworm.gif

Edit: You are projecting ao. Things like taste can't be argued about. Things like audibility of artefacts can.

And if you didn't read it: I own a 300B SE amp.
 
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#158
Evenharmonics said:
To you personally. There are many fans of SS amps. Just go to solid state amp section of this forum and you will see.
You listen to what you want to and they listen to what they want to. Just try not to make unsupported claims because if you do, you will face challenges.
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I don't care about SS amp section folks. It is already written in the scripture that only a chosen few will enter the Nirvana and the rest will suffer eternal darkness :deer:

PS . And personally I think the SS folks will be much more offended by the claims that all competently designed amps , be it PASS , NAIM , Goldmund , KRELL etc sound the same than by my trolling
 
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#159
we have been told how cds will be awesome, and everybody should throw away their vinyls..
but what a surprise, even in old recordings is present hi freq information, sometimes up to 50-60khz.
it has roll off, no doubt, but in more "natural fashion", than rapid cut off due to nyquist freq, in digital systems. (not to mention modern days screwup with loudness wars)

other parameters, snr, channel separation is inferior.

but interesting how vinyl can give listening pleasure (i guess this the point of discussion )
 
#160
hpeter said:
we have been told how cds will be awesome, and everybody should throw away their vinyls..
but what a surprise, even in old recordings is present hi freq information, sometimes up to 50-60khz.
it has roll off, no doubt, but in more "natural fashion", than rapid cut off due to nyquist freq, in digital systems. (not to mention modern days screwup with loudness wars)

other parameters, snr, channel separation is inferior.

but interesting how vinyl can give listening pleasure (i guess this the point of discussion )
Click to expand...

Sigh.
You have to separate taste from objective things.

Taste: I like vinyl better than CD.
Objective: CD has less audible artefacts than vinyl.


I propose a test: record a record at 196kHz. Then highpass the sound file at 20kHz. Next pitch shift the file so the ultra sonic frequencies become audible. What do you hear?
 
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